All Forum Posts by: Jerry K.

@William Hamburg Sedona being a great high end vacation community, has a large vacation home rental industry. Reading your thoughts on the local regulations (homes can not be rented for less than a month is one) and what makes a good rental management company would be very interesting.

You could create your free Biggerpockets Blog and share your knowledge of the area for others. My goal is to retire to the area in the coming years and I may buy a vacation rental route if I ever find a great deal on a home there before I'm ready to retire.

Rhett, You need to reach out to @Denise Evans - she has several blog posts about Alabama Tax Liens and the process here on BP.  She is an attorney and investor.

@Donna Hopkins Welcome to BP. I read through your other posts, so I see you are new to REI and have a successful career outside of Real Estate - congratulations!

Your question is a little like asking, "Where is the best place to eat steak or chicken?" Everyone will have a different opinion.

More importantly is to first figure out your goal(s). Do you want to own property, or do you want an interest return? What is your time frame for expecting your payback? How much time do you have to learn about either? How much time do you have to do the research and due diligence before you buy a lien or a deed? 

Liens and Deeds are two very different things. There is a huge learning curve. Every state and even sometimes counties and cities have different laws regarding liens and deeds.

The guru courses only touch on the esoteric differences. They don't delve into the hidden costs. For example in Arizona, you have to wait 3 years from the date of the lien before you can foreclose. In some counties you have to pay the taxes each subsequent year brefore you can foreclose - in some counties you don't but if there is an older lien, that lien holder can foreclose first. There is the cost of sending a certified, properly worded Notice of intent to foreclose to the owners. After 30 days you have to file a foreclosure suit that can cost anywhere from $1,500 to $3,000.

In Florida, if you hold a lien, and the owner has not redeemed (paid back) the taxes, you can petition to foreclose, but you have to pay off the other lien holders, and the county auctions the deed. So you still may not end up with the property.

In Illinois, the type of property determines how long you have to wait until you can foreclose. Vacant residential land is only 6 months. Improved property depends on the type of improvement.

I would hold off buying a guru course straight from the guru - unless you like to pay retail prices for courses and then realize you paid to have the guru company call/email you make a larger investment. 

If you want some basic general information, read "The 16% Solution" by Joel Moskowitz. This will give the basics for Liens. If you really want a guru course, go to Ebay and buy one used. The guru won't bother you and you'll have a ton of information. It won;t be local to you, but it will give you some of the terminology.

The actual best way to learn is to go to local lien or deed auctions and just watch. Talk up a few of the investors. Take a lawyer who specializes in liens or deeds to breakfast and you'll get an hour of time for the cost of the breakfast.  You'll also have started building your network of professionals.  Then, if you have time, volunteer to work with a seasoned investor. In exchange for doing grunt work and helping the mentor make money, you will learn the business from the inside.

Just my opinion.  Oh, and if you're in Chicago, I recommend Kinzie Street Chop House for steak.

@Lou Gonzales Tax liens can be a good way to get higher interest on your money. @Tom Yung has given some great examples of thinking ahead so you avoid bad decisions. I don't actually invest in Illinois tax liens since most are not online auctions (however Cook county is quasi-online). I invest mostly in Arizona and Florida. I made my first tax lien investments back in the late 1980's in Illinois. I turned to tax liens in a strong way about 6 years ago when I dove into online tax lien auctions in other states.

It is difficult to perform due diligence from another state. I visit the areas I invest in about every 18-24 months so that I have an idea of decent areas and local services and people. My goal is mainly interest rate return in my i401k and also some money outside of my retirement.

@Michael Oldehoff Being in Phoenix I thought you might know Mark! He has been very helpful to me on my liens.  

@Kim Gerred Florida is different than AZ.  I haven't done a Florida lien foreclosure yet - and again all it does is cause the county to auction the parcel - but I don't believe Florida has the 30 day notice the way Arizona does. @Wayne Brooks do you know if there is a 30 day notice in Florida before a tax lien foreclosure?

You have no ownership in the parcel. You can try to buy the parcel from the current owner and pay off any and all liens.  Then you could sell the parcel once you owned it.  But you holding a tax lien on the parcel at this point doesn't give you any leverage in selling the parcel to the neighbor.

@Michael Oldehoff I'm with you on it not making sense, but that is how went down with my Pinal county lien foreclosure.  The attorney (Manoil) called me to say he got a check in the mail for his fees from the county.  So he looked it up and the owner had redeemed.  Maybe in Pinal the attorney files his fee with the foreclosure filing? Not sure, but I was not billed for any of the foreclosure fee and the attorney had his check from the county for his fees.

@Kim Gerred My apologies. @Michael Oldehoff is correct, you only have to notify the owners for the 30 day notice. 

Michael - A question to help clarify for me; are you referring to getting the owner to pay the attorney fees when you wrote "Always keep in mind that it is not always collectible. Having a judgement and getting paid are completely different issues." Or am I misinterpreting what you were referring to?

I have had only one AZ lien owner redeem after the foreclosure was opened (foreclosure opened after the 30 day notice past), and my attorney told me when the owner redeemed he had to pay the back taxes, interest and my attorney fees.  My attorney was paid by the county (Pinal) for my fees, so the owner could not redeem unless he paid those attorney fees to the county itself. There was no judgement involved to get him to pay the fees.  Maybe it's different county by county? Or am I way off to what you were referring?

@Kim Gerred Based on your previous post about Arizona and Florida tax liens I'll assume you meant to ask if AZ and Florida are the same for mature tax liens.

They are different.  Arizoma has a three year redemption period and then the lien holder can foreclose to get the property.  Florida puts the property up for auction when the lienholder "forecloses".

AZ also has a 30 day Notice of Foreclosure that is sent to the parcel owner and lien holders before the foreclosure is actually started. That is to keep foreclosures out of the courts if the owner just needs a "reminder' to pay 3 years of taxes.  Once the 30 days is done, then the foreclosure starts.  A nice benefit in AZ is that if the owner pays the taxes after the 30 day notice but before the foreclosure reaches the deadline, then the owner has to pay all the attorney fees for the lien holder who started the foreclosure.

I suggest a Google search of "Arizona Tax Lien Statutes" will bring you to the page with the official laws related to Arizona.

@Adam George Welcome to Biggerpockets. Ohio is a Tax Deed state insread of Tax Liens. There is no redemption period for the owner once the sale occurs so you only have to wait for the auction sale to be verified and recorded. I'm not an Ohio investor but there are BP members who discuss Tax Deeds in Ohio on the forums. One is from Dayton that I've seen.

I suggest reading the Ohio statutes for Tax Deed sales. Google "Ohio Tax Deed Statutes".

Talk with your Professor and take a Dayton attorney who specializes in Tax deeds to breakfast. Have a list of questions ready, after you've read the statutes, and let them know you are a new investor.

Do a search here on BP in the upper right corner where it says "Search the site". Search on "Ohio Tax Deed". The results will be from the Forums, Blogs and other sections of BP.

Read through the forum titled "HUD, VA, and Tax Sales".

Send a Colleague request to those in the forums who invest in Tax Deeds in Ohio. Then look for real estate meetup/networking groups in your area and talk with other investors. You'll need to make connections for funds, contractors, other investors, etc.

Good luck!