All Forum Posts by: Jonathan Greene

This is the most meta-Bro post ever. This is peak Bro. You could have made the whole post without referencing me at all or slinging several personal insults. It's meta-Bro when you talk about a post bringing down BP and then trash the OP like a school boy in the post. You missed the point of the post.

New investor get way too much back patting and yessing along and that enables them to make terrible decisions. Many people are super-helpful on BP, but there are also MANY people selling coaching or their REI program and they encourage investors to follow any path the ends up with them getting money.

I don't think all posts need to be hearts and flowers for the journey because when the market takes a dive again, Bros are going to be in trouble because they are overextended and overencouraged to keep getting doors instead of building their first investment into something that flows better year after year. Everyone can't invest. Many people need to pump the brakes. Just because you think Broke is a Choice doesn't mean some people won't go broke by making the wrong choice.

We all don't have to agree, but if you can't find humor and respond to alleged negativity in other posts with your own post with an outright personal attack guised in the community aspect and obvious suck up to BP (including @ to the people who run it), you are just doing meta-Bro, bro. Are you trying to sell new investors on something perhaps?

And if BP was for beginners only, there would be no one to learn from.

@Meir Greenblatt you are so not a Bro Investor. Bro can't listen to all those podcasts. He puts it on in the background on 2x while he does his morning grooming. I've made plenty of bad buys earlier in my career, but if you can hang on to them long enough they will eventually be worth something most of the time, like that condo.

There is a sweet spot for lipstick flips into AirBnb rentals in areas where AirBnb is advantageous or seasonal. You can save by not planning on a full reno for resale of high-end annual rents and make it prettier and more functional for short-term rentals.

@Nick Moore valid point. I think the "all of my mistakes" posts are invaluable as well. To be honest, the satire and sarcasm is intended to decrease the expectation of the participation trophy. It's like someone who wants a REI coach, but only wants them to be nice and affirm all of their ideas. The truth is that bad investors ruin markets and deals and sometimes, actually a lot of the time, a newbie needs a sarcastic slap in the face more than encouragement to follow their dreams when the path to their dreams is paved with an unrealistic strategy and guru-speak.

@Nick Moore and @Account Closed, I get what you are saying, but if one post that is satire-based would have disrupted your entire real estate strategy and thrown you off course to quit, I think that's not the post's issue, it's how you feel about what you know at the time. There are core facts in here that should serve as a way to save a new investor from the pitfalls of rushing to a deal. If you read the forums enough you see first-timers salivating at a first deal when they haven't even seen it in person or seen any properties in person and that is not sound strategy. It's just a flex to become an investor. The ones who interact and listen will benefit. If you read it back then and asked some questions, I'm sure it would not have destroyed your REI confidence.

@Matt M. that is doing it the right way all-around. You are saving so much and reducing the probability of future issues to almost nothing.

@Nick Moore one of the main problems for first-time investors is getting only positive feedback or wanting only positive feedback. Many of the forum posts need a reality check to save someone from losing their savings. If you back pat everyone in the forums and encourage them too much, half of them will be broke and make bad decisions. I am continually shocked how anyone finds this negative. It's fact-based satire and when people react to it, it just means they are close to Bro town. If you are doing research and spending the time, it wouldn't be you. The post is pretty clear on who it is and everyone knows them in their market.

@Medi Sarwary it's a language play in the satire. I don't really think Bro Investor is to blame for all of the problems. If you look at Bro Investor solely on OOS investing, it is having a big impact. There are a million reasons for everything, but this type of investor is definitely clouding the waters in a lot of ways.

@Anthony Gayden yes, there is another post about it more in-depth here. When new investors or bad investors continue to overpay in a certain area it creates false inflation of the values there. When they don't complete the projects or can't turn around and sell it, the mini-bubble comes back down. When that happens people buy in with the expectations that the value was correct, but then it goes down and they can't figure out why. I am talking about driving up prices over market value to win deals, that's what causes the problem. The value isn't correct just because someone pays it.

@Nicole A. that's a different breed for sure, but I know them as well. You would think they would buy low and then do that, but yes, oftentimes they have to cash reserves and contacts or holds to get the deal and then use their own "contractors." I don't know why everyone isn't crazy about finding good tenants. Bad tenants will take your money and time and make it turn to dust.

Your costs for PM and Section 8 requirements will likely make it not a great first investment from afar. Section 8 is very consistent on the pay side, but tenancy can be an issue in some. Out-of-state investing is hard for first-timers and when you add on more things like Section 8, need of a PM, maybe no plans to be there, HOA requirements and potential assessments if it's a condo or townhouse, it's a lot to bite off for a first one.

Great points by @Daniel Haberkost above. Your issue isn't your plan, it's smart and you've done the research enough to make one, but with limited capital you don't want to already be thinking 2-3 ahead. Get one, maximize it, refinance out of it and then decide what to do. I wouldn't go in, knowing you are cash-low, thinking about the second and third property. That usually corrupts the focus on your first major investment.

No, don't sign that. It is their way of protecting themselves if you see 100 properties and never offer, but that's part of the game. If you don't have your license as an investor, you have to make real-life friends with an agent who is also an investor. In the beginning, you can just ask to see what they are interested in and then toss in some of your own. If they are more an investor than an agent, they may like to have another set of eyes.

A cold approach as a new investor is mostly a waste of time for agents so you have to understand their side going in. And you already do if you know that, right now, you don't have a ton to offer. But maybe you have things to offer outside, not as a payment or any side deal, as a person. Depending on your main trade, if it's not investing, maybe you can help them out as a friend.

I hope this helps. I wouldn't sign any agreement unless it was for a specific property that you were bidding on only.

In every corner of real estate, those that are willing to walk away will always close the best deals. That doesn't mean you have to be rude to walk away, it's all about valuing your time and price and not spending excess time in a back and forth when you know your numbers. Too often as a new investor, we can't let go of that property we love so much. And then we pay for it later. All because we weren't willing to walk away.

My strategy as an agent and as an investor has always been the same. This is what I have to offer, I am confident in what I am offering, this is my only offer. No hard feelings if you don't take it, here is my card or contact info, just give me a call when you decide. Then, I never, ever adjust my offer. I still think negotiation is valid, but it's often just a game because neither side wants to walk away. For me, it's a waste of time to go back and forth over and over again. I don't like to spend all this time going back and forth over $1,000 or one cracked window.

As an investor, I submit my offer with an explanation of why my numbers are the way they are and that's it. I don't keep calling them, I don't even worry about it. I will check in two weeks later, but they usually call back before then if they were really ready. Once a seasoned seller knows you will negotiate, they will keep going and expect you to follow. When you lay out why your terms are just as important as the price and give a detailed background on the comps and compare them, there isn't much they can say. And PS, no one else in your market is likely to give them all of that information. That's why your offer is your only offer.

Some people find this too hardcore or not friendly, but it's not like that at all. It will save a ton of time over the year and give you more freedom to make more offers instead of waiting on one. I know that a lot of people hug the deal because they are hard to come by in their area, but that still doesn't make it a good deal if you can't get it at the number you want. You can still be friendly and build a relationship with a seller by not caving or wavering. In the end, I think that most sellers respect this more and trust you more when you say "this is my offer and this is why" and then you stick to that, no matter how long they take to get back to you to do the deal.