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All Forum Posts by: Kurt Gardner

Kurt Gardner has started 11 posts and replied 127 times.

Post: Tenants divorcing...now what?

Kurt GardnerPosted
  • Investor
  • Maryville, IL
  • Posts 129
  • Votes 81

I will add the caveat, "I know this is not a forum of lawyers, and this in no way constitutes legal advice.  For legal inquiries, I should consult a lawyer."  There...

I am looking for anecdotal stories about what you might have dealt with in the past with a divorcing couple on a rental agreement.

I have a M2M agreement signed by both parties (and a co-signer - wife's parents).  Husband is leaving and wants off the lease once he is out. 

I have several thoughts on how to handle this, and I'd like to hear from those who've encountered a similar situation.

Thank you for the STORIES (not lawyering)!

Post: Serious risk in owning multiple properties?

Kurt GardnerPosted
  • Investor
  • Maryville, IL
  • Posts 129
  • Votes 81

I should have linked to @Nick Sabat.

Amen, brother.  Mistakes are a fine teacher, and I prefer to learn from them rather than repeat them.

Stuff your can!

Good words, sir.

Post: Serious risk in owning multiple properties?

Kurt GardnerPosted
  • Investor
  • Maryville, IL
  • Posts 129
  • Votes 81

@Yoni Weisbrod

Ha...analysis paralysis be thy name (ok, not really cause you're asking good questions, but do not let questions hinder you from action).

It requires a combination of patience and boldness to be successful in this, from my experience.  The #1 thing is BUY SMART.  DO NOT OVERPAY.  This is the part of the deal that all the other factors hinge upon. 

Do your homework and vet everything from:

  • neighborhood - don't buy all in the same area 
  • comps - use good comps, don't be "wishful" to what they are worth and consider 90% as a safer number than a full valuation in the event of a market downturn (@Frank Jiang is wise).
  • renters in the area - turnover rates, quality of tenants, many renters or mostly owners?
  • insurance - flood plain, mine subsidence, other costs
  • taxes - trending up/down, overvalued, undervalued
  • and many others for that matter...you'll learn as you go along

Make sure you are purchasing a property that matches the equation you want to use to set up your exit strategy @Andrew Halbert.  I have three options:

  1. I can sell to my tenant - most of my tenants are interested in home ownership, eventually.
  2. I can sell to an investor - I only rent M2M so I can offer a home that produces income or can be vacant in 30 days notice.
  3. I can sell to the open market - most of what I own is SFH, so I have a broad market to advertise my house...I can also sell my home below market (because my purchase price is right) to get out quickly if I need to and still make a considerable profit.

Multiple properties may incur higher PROBABILITY of a bad thing happening, but it will yield you a higher PERCENTAGE of return on your investment IF you stick to your investment rules.

My largest "contrary to the popular belief" is that I buy not to generate large amounts of cash flow (although each property does @Justin Fox brings up a good point that it isn't just what you have left after you pay PITI), but to keep my equity safe and building as I own and maintain the property. @Nicole A. and @Nathan Miller are right about rent. They tend to hold even when the property may drop, particularly if you don't get all crazy and charge through the roof (pardon the pun), and people will always need to rent. I am a hopeful type, and would like to see the market and property values go up significantly one day. Even if they do not, I have enough LTV to absorb a 30% drop in the market and still be ok with my investments.

You will always face risk (amen @Walter Key). The best you can do is research, reach out for help, and then reach for your checkbook and buy.  Develop relationships @Jeff B. points out it is about going in eyes wide open.  Learn from those who have been through the fire and who hold golden rings.  This is a great place for resources and we all wish you the best.

Blessings.

Post: Considering selling my duplex

Kurt GardnerPosted
  • Investor
  • Maryville, IL
  • Posts 129
  • Votes 81

@Frank Inman - because the equity value is so low, and it sounds like holding this is restricting you from your next WANT, I'd initially suggest just selling it and move on.

HOWEVER, if you are seriously interested in keeping a hand in real estate, and you fancy yourself a burgeoning investor in the business and have as a goal to continue, it sounds like you have a decent cash flow property ($300-400 per month with a max period of 3 weeks vacant and minimal repairs).  Without knowing all the numbers, as long as you can find suitable housing for yourself where you are moving, I'd say keep your investment in the duplex. 

To me, it sounds like you're wrestling with the decision of "should I get a nicer home to live in, or should I keep an investment and live in something on a tighter budget."  It also sounds like you might have another avenue with @Jerry Padilla to give you another option with your VA benefits.

It's the REI life for me right now...as has been quoted many times by members here from its originator, Dave Ramsey, I choose to "live like no other now, so in the future, I can live like no other."

just a couple pennies to consider...

Post: All Of My Tenants Have Nicer Cars Than Me

Kurt GardnerPosted
  • Investor
  • Maryville, IL
  • Posts 129
  • Votes 81

@Ian Walsh - I'd adjust that statement slightly...

Not everyone manages their money differently.

@Account Closed - beautiful...I love the shopping cart bashing game!

Post: Using 401K for investing

Kurt GardnerPosted
  • Investor
  • Maryville, IL
  • Posts 129
  • Votes 81

sorry, @Thomas Rutkowski and @Jack Middleton

You are correct...it's a total misstatement...not sure how I did that.  I borrowed FROM the 401k.

I apologize for any misunderstanding...Still glad I did, and I'm very happy with the terms and flexibility it has given me.

Post: All Of My Tenants Have Nicer Cars Than Me

Kurt GardnerPosted
  • Investor
  • Maryville, IL
  • Posts 129
  • Votes 81
Originally posted by @Ben Leybovich:
Originally posted by @Samantha Hiscock:
Originally posted by @Account Closed:

@Bill Schrimpf So true.  I always thought it was so weird that the car advertisements sold the amount of the car payment, as opposed to the cost of the car.  I thought, nobody could be that stupid.

But, a few months ago I was with someone who was negotiating the purchase of a new car, and all she kept saying to the dealer was the amount of the monthly payment she wanted.  She wasn't negotiating sale price at all.

I find that scary and fascinating.

We bought my husband a newer car a few months ago and they kept talking about the payments and we're refusing to talk price. I told the guy over and over the payment wasn't important and all I cared about was price. He kept going back to the payment issue, and how he could "make it so low", quoted us a 6 year term.. I got so pissed I stormed out.  He finally shut up when I told him we could just go elsewhere and pay cash if he was going to be a d-bag. 

It is disgusting that people have such a low level of financial literacy that they will blindly purchase anything on credit because of the "low monthly payment" and not realize they will be paying on it for so long or understand the true cost. They call it "living the dream" because they haven't stepped foot into reality!!!

 That's interesting, Samantha. Let me throw a few facts into this conversation:

One - we live in a debt economy. The fractional reserve banking system of ours is based on levering of debt. You can agree or disagree with the game, but - if you chose not to play, you will struggle to win.

In a fractional reserve system, which mandates inflation and velocity of money, cash is a depreciating asset, if you can call it asset. Therefore, using cash to buy depreciating assets simply amplifies the depreciation effect. Leverage, as you know, works both ways. Certainly, an automobile is a depreciating asset...

While debt is as cheap as it is today (might as well be free), could you allow for the possibility that leveraging debt is not a bad thing?

Now, that's all fine and dandy, but if you are the one stuck paying the debt service, then it's a form of in-slavery.  This wouldn't be wise. But, if you understand the monetary system, which clearly tells you to borrow, how do you reconcile it with the common sense of personal finance, which clearly tells you not to borrow...?

The answer is pretty simple - if you borrow the money, but someone else covers the debt service, then you are not the one in-slaved. The banks want you to be their slave. Indeed, the entire monetary system of debt consumption is designed with you being the slave. But, you can play the game a little smarter, and understand - if the system is based on someone being the master, while someone else is a slave, then I have to position myself to be the master...then debt is not your enemy, but your friend (within reason, of course).

You cannot use W2 income to buy depreciating assets. Use your W2 income to finance passive income. Eventually, hopefully, there is enough stable passive income in your life so that you can absorb the debt service for some of the finer things in life into this passive income. 

Thoughts?

Yep.

Leverage is where it is at.

It's like a credit card. They're not evil rectangular plastic monsters.  They're leverage for your cash when you have that money to support them (similar to allowing your tenants to pay your debts/mortgage).

I have several CC, one for the bigbox hardware stores that give me 5% off my purchases.  I pay it off each month and get a no hassle discount on top of my negotiated deals.

I have a discover and get 5% on various things which doubles at the end of August because of a promotion.  I pay it off each month.

I have a final card that gets me travel miles.  I get free trips when I pay my contractors bills.

The whole car thing is the same...WE use a TOOL in the way it makes the most sense. Most people aren't taught that or ignore it.

A bedazzled hammer with jewels and gold leaf will pound a nail just as good as a $4 hammer from home depot.  I'm just not going to keep paying for that hammer for the next 5 years!

Live smart and within your means.  Keep your income in check with your outgo!

Post: All Of My Tenants Have Nicer Cars Than Me

Kurt GardnerPosted
  • Investor
  • Maryville, IL
  • Posts 129
  • Votes 81

I never understood the concept of paying $750 for a *brand name* purse and no money to put into it.  It always made more sense to me to have the $30 bag and $720 bucks?

Same with a vehicle.  I drive mine until it breaks. I like nice things, and I want something that is reliable, so I don't necessarily drive a rust-bucket (it's a 2004 trailblazer with 175,000 miles). I also understand it's a transportation tool, not something that determines who I am, what I'm worth, or makes me any greater of a person in the minds of people who matter to me.

It is four wheels and safe. 

What isn't safe is putting every dollar into clothes, rims, neighborhoods as a status symbol so the Jones's think you're ok.

Bless them.  I will offer them a well appointed and kept home at a reasonable price all day long.

Post: Using 401K for investing

Kurt GardnerPosted
  • Investor
  • Maryville, IL
  • Posts 129
  • Votes 81

@George P. @Jack Middleton

I have borrowed against my 401k.  typically you can borrow up to half it's value and repay it through deductions from your regular pay.  it's interest based, and I'm paying 4.5%  In my case, I had the option to set the length of time to repay up to 5 years in 12 month increments.

My year to date return was pretty miserable (less than 6% at this time, but was near 1% at the beginning of this year).  It's not taxed by taking it as a loan, and it's a much better vehicle for me to use it as an investment into my RE ventures at this time.  The interest on the loan is a little high, and I will want to put the money back into the account as soon as possible.  I repay it easily through my paycheck and there is no penalty when repay in full.

There are plusses and minuses to do this, and it makes more sense to my situation to utilize that money for a venture I can make 12+% on right now over the next few months than to hope it returns me something better than what the average is in stocks, etc.

hope this is valuable for you.

@Julie Marquez We process our application with a third party and require the applicant to pay us the money and we then pay to submit the application.  We do ZERO pre-application screening for liability purposes.  If they pay, we submit it and let our verifier make their suggestion.

@Steven Anderson, man your three file system is really advanced.  We do keep a master hard copy file with all the original property documents, but I don't scan them - something to consider...you're inspiring me to create some checklists!  We do most of our paperwork on paper.  We do have a scanner/printer/copier and we do provide the tenant with a hard copy of the agreement and other important documents at the time we scan it into our filing system.  We like the option of having both a hard copy filed in a 2-high and also a scanned copy in its own folder on our computer. @Robert Melcher I suppose we could shred down the line, but I really do like to be able to "touch" the contracts.

Instead of calculating due dates based on application dates or acceptance times, we prorate everything to the first of the month, period.  All our dates are then synchronized and we have one "batch" to consider at the appropriate times for each of our tenants.  Also, to simplify things, we only rent M2M.  I have found through experience, it is a slightly better protection for me and it saves headaches for paperwork.

@Mel Hayes I have a home phone that has the ringer turned off.  I let all calls go to voicemail and I have txt notification to my cell.  Google voice is a nifty option and really a nice way to do it on the cheap.  Those voice to text messages are funny sometimes!

@Kimberly H. @Luka Milicevic (yessir) I created a very simple excel spreadsheet with tabs for each month and all of our properties are on each sheet (5 SFH and soon to be a duplex!). Each address has several lines underneath for entries for payment of rent, our PITI payments (broken down), repairs and expenses (the lines are easily added to with the right-click insert option, and they have columns for the date of the entry, notes about the entry and the amount). I put some simple formulas in specific "floating cells" so they would calculate our cash flow for each property, total expenditures for each, and mortgage balances (just for fun!). Additionally, I made a summary 13th sheet for yearly totals (this has helped in our tax preparation like you wouldn't believe!).

I have toyed with the idea of electronic payment.  I am not versed in all the options.  At this time, we require all payments be delivered to our address no later than the first of the month (postmarked, mailed payments prior to the 1st are considered "on time" whether they arrive after or before and no check is deposited until the 1st regardless of when it is received).  Any late rents are charged and noted on the spreadsheet as any debit/credit would be.

I try and keep the office work as streamlined as possible.  I do see in the future once we break a certain property number threshold that we will probably need to modify our processes or consider a PM. 

I'm leaning more toward the PM because I want our energies to go toward finding and preparing the properties for a tenant (this is the real rewarding side of the business for me).  I love the hunt, the calculations, and then the managing of the rehab process.  It's such a fun numbers game and a very "retirement securing" game at that!

All your (each commenter) systems are really neat to see, and I appreciate all the details you provided.  Thank you!

If I could slightly hijack this (or add one additional element to the discussion)...at what point would you consider a PM?  Never?  At a dollar amount of monthly rent?  At a number of properties to manage?

@Chris Bingham - thanks for starting a great discussion!