All Forum Posts by: Manuel A.

Dropped out in the 10th grade, went to community college at the age of 16, and am going to graduate next year with a degree in Pre-Med Health Sciences with a concentration in Diagnostic Medical Sonography. Finally! But I still have more to go!

Even once I finally get wealthy in REI, I'm going to go to school as I love to learn! I haven't taken a break from school since I started!

I hope someone replies, but be sure to keep us updated with this deal!

Yeah but do you have the right to refuse late payment, allowing you to evict. I read you do. That's what I would think is the right thing to do.

Really? What are the requirements to be able to evict someone?

You're not able to refuse late payments and still be able to evict them?

Probably, but I figure it'd be great to have an outside opinion focusing on the morality, not the money. But if you read my whole post, money is very much considered (not saying you didn't).

As we see Daniel's new post, it seems his tenant may not be, "worthy" because of too much problems. That's exactly what my post was about, I never said everyone in the world should get this help. It's all covered in the "Why is the tenant distressed?" part. It specifically says,

With what's been going on for Daniel Fisher, he even said himself, the 10% fees were benefiting him. Of course this wasn't benefiting the tenant. In the situation, obviously the tenant's are living out of their means. They need a cheaper rental. And this has been going on for 6 months now! So therefor if you (Steve Babiak) take my (inexperienced) advice, you would've evicted them a long time ago. That 10% is a disadvantage to the tenants, they should be in a cheaper rental, they are much out of their means. They should of been out before Christmas, but since Christmas is here, it's up to you individually to say, "Do I want to be charitable for Christmas? Can I afford it? Do these tenants deserve it? Can I do something better with my money? Do I even WANT to be a charitable person?" if the answers lean toward letting the tenants stay, let them stay a little longer. If not, then make them leave them leave.

Personally, if I benefited with the 10% every month, and I didn't evict them for 6 months and have all those benefits, and never donated to charity so late in the year (which I don't donate, I like to go do stuff like feed homeless people on the street, give them blankets, stuff that I can see my money actually doing something...), I would probably lean towards giving them Christmas. But I'm not in the situation, so you have to solve it individually with your moral compass. That's the most important part, what would you do considering what I said you should think about? My guide never said if ABC happens, don't evict them its, considering ABC, what would you do?

Everything you guys are telling me, I covered. I really just don't think you guys are reading the entire post.

Hey I agree with this. Well except the hard *** and push over part.

See, I don't think in this example, your tenant forced you to be charitable, it was more a cause and effect. An accident. But that's where we'll probably never agree upon.

I agree, great chat!

I'm sure someone reading our back and forth posts will help someone make a decision!

Oh, and I don't have any rentals... yet... I'm still waiting on my first deal for a fix and flip.

Great, now let's solve this, here's my response;

- It is not "forced charity". Everyone loves saying that for some reason. Say you were born into poverty, would you say, "My mom and dad forced me into poverty through conceiving me!" I hope you wouldn't. It may have happened that way, you can start throwing euphemisms to demonize and say it, confidently, but it's wrong. But somehow if your mom got sick and couldn't pay rent you would demonize her inability to pay rent as forcing charity on someone? You would have to believe your mom and dad forced poverty on you as well.

Let me be imaginative here with contrasting examples:

- What if your mom ran out of gas one day taking you to work (I know your mom probably doesn't take you to work)
+The tenant not making it to the end of the month with payment in hand = running out of gas causing you to miss the financial opportunity you had.

- and your mom couldn't afford to get more gas because she was sick (or got fired) and all her money is gone, and you have no way else to get to work.
+ Tenant got sick and lost all his/her money (or lost his/her job). They have no way of getting you (to) your money = your mom not having a way to get you to your source of money (work).

- You never make it to work and find out your fired because of that.
+ Tenant never made the money, and never paid you. You lose money.

- Are you going to tell your mom, "Mom, you forced me to get fired from work! You thief!"
+ Are you going to tell the tenant, "You never paid me, FORCED CHARITY!!! THIEF!!!!!"

Please write a different example if you please, I'd love to learn from you as well! I don't think I'm all knowing and right! But I definitely think it's more of a cause and effect, then a force. Yes, that's a fairly nuanced statement.

- Now if in the story your mom just sat and said, "I'm not going to even try taking you to work." You could blame her, mostly.
+ Likewise, if a tenant is blatantly not even trying to pay, then blame them.

Sometimes, it genuinely may be force though, I agree. Like with Will's case. But if you read my post (which I'm starting to think no one is who replies) if someone was doing such things you would evict.

I never said let people stay in for months at a time for free. I said 1 month (December for Christmas) if NEED be and IF YOU WANT TO. If you want money over morality, go ahead, but if you have the feelings that the situation isn't right, analyze and act on it.

I'm saying, if a person is in real need, perhaps it's necessary to give them a break. And I'm not even saying all the time! But no one seems to understand that. Sure the decision of "who's trying hard?" and "who isn't?" Would probably be hard to dictate. That's on you individually though. It's not the question at hand.

And lastly, "if you do not honor your commitments and adhere to your responsibilities, then do you truly deserve charitable donations?" I guarantee, everyone that get's any money from you (or from anyone else) through a charitable service (if you donate) have not been able to, "honor" a lot of commitments. Not because they're evil, but because life is truly rough on some.

Please, tell the whole world to stop being charitable to people who haven't "honored" a commitment/responsibility so they can realize that's everyone and see you are absolutely wrong. Sorry, but that is a mean thing to say. Where's the empathy for those people? I'm not saying everyone is telling the truth in those situations, but a lot of people don't, "honor" commitments because of struggle. Not malicious thinking.

Please though, I'd love another thoughtful response! (I'm not being sarcastic)

Thanks!

Really? Well if that is the case, if you took into account everything I said, you'd agree with me. As I said, if you have too much to loose, then evict. IE. If you have a chance of getting sued and loose a ton of money, then that's too much to loose. :D

But really? What kind of law suit? A discrimination law suite?

***Warning, long post with views you'll probably not agree with***

Obviously this is a moral problem. Otherwise we wouldn't care to be talking about this; Being the "grinch".

It bothers us, you know it's wrong in some way. If we had it any other way, if there was no money involved, we would all say, YES, let those people stay. Poor them, it's Christmas!!!

But add $800 (I'm guessing...) to the mix and what? Our morality changes? Sure this guy already maybe got 1 month of rent free living, but then what do you do? It's Christmas after all!

I have the answer, it's 100% the absolute correct answer and it's only two words long. The magic answer to your dilemma is; it's complicated... You have to see if it fits you personally.

Ask yourself this:

Do you donate to charity(ies)?

If so, maybe you should consider a different way to donate to a good cause. Instead of giving your money to charity, give it to your distressed tenants on Christmas only (or any other day if you wish). See your money actually doing something good! Heck, indulge in it if you want!

Image, you have money that you didn't donate to a charity, and instead you go up to a distressed tenant on Christmas, and say, "I love to use my money to help others. Instead of donating to charities, I help my distressed tenants. So every Christmas, and for Christmas only, I cover as much of my distressed tenants rent's as I can afford (how much your charity money can afford). So, don't worry about it this month, relax for the Holiday! I got you 100% covered! Enjoy your Christmas!"

Personally that would be amazing if I could do that :D

I know you may only donate to charity an amount that may only cover 1 months rent for 1 tenant, but even that would be great! Especially when it occurs like now! And if it came that you needed to choose between tenants, do a lottery.

How much money do you make/have?

Of course if you can't cover it, if it will really screw you over, you should evict them. In the long run, if it made you lose out on some kind of deals, or it made you lose a house, or a substantial amount of money, then it okay to evict. You have a role in society, you provide good housing to others. The more housing you provide is a good thing. If you can get a family who can't afford a mortgage into a rental that's great. If you can do more good with the money spending it another way then helping a tenant, then evict them. Full out utilitarianism. Even if it's more good for yourself/family. If you need a vacation cause you're dying of stress and it's affecting your family and a nice vacation may remedy it. You may have to play grinch. (See you guys, I bet you thought I'd say keep the tenant in at all costs right? :D)

Why is the tenant distressed?

If you can find out why, this may help reinforce a decision. If you tenant is renting a $1,200/month rental, maybe he/she should be evicted and live within their means (move down to a $750/month rental). If your tenant makes $2,500/month and still can't afford an $750/month rental, then what's going on? Are they financially irresponsible? Are there personal problems? Are there drug problems? Is this guy/gal spending all their money on buying jewelry/cloths/road trips and not paying you? That's their fault. They know what's going to happen, and you evicting them will probably HELP them, teaching them a hard lesson of life. And sadly you have to be the teacher...

Or what if they had to be hospitalized and now own $13k in medical bills? Then I and others could sympathize. But of course you can only go so far as in the second question.

In the end, take all this in and sit down, reason it out, and pick the decision you know is right. I don't think just because you're a landlord you need to be heartless and simply put money over another human being so simply. And I think you feel that way too :D

Feed back welcomed!

Good luck Daniel Fisher,

Manuel