All Forum Posts by: Nik Moushon

Quote from @Jay Thomas:

First, protecting your plans is crucial. Copyright helps, but it's not perfect. Make sure potential builders sign a non-disclosure agreement (NDA) before showing them your plans. This legally keeps things confidential. You can also remove personal details from the plans to reduce the risk of someone copying your project.Now, about the budget. Be open with your current builder about the rising costs. Understand why it's happening and see if you can negotiate. If you're checking out another builder, make sure they're qualified and licensed in Texas. Compare their quotes not just on price but also on experience, timeline, and references. Use NDAs to protect your plans, talk openly with your current builder about costs, and consider more than just price when choosing a builder.

 Unless you are Mark Zuckerberg with a super secret underground base and an unlimited budget no one is going to even look at, let alone, sign an NDA to do a quote on a house. The entire notion of a NDA in this context is absurd. 

That aside, unless the OP designed and drew the plans he has no rights to the plans whatsoever. He is allowed to use them for the one time purpose of building said house and that is it. He has no legal recourse to pursue any GC for copying his plans if they felt like it because he doesn't own the copyright. The designer/architect would have to do the legal work and go after the GC. The house owner can't...they have zero legal standing....unless, like I've said, they own the copyright by either being the designer/architect or have bought the copyright. 

Quote from @Marco Cruzatt:

I stand corrected. Thank you for the clarification.
I was just talking to one of my colleagues, he's an Civil Engineer too but used to work for an Architectural firm for years. He was telling me all of the things a licenced architect can do which is what you are describing. However, in my experience, most of the items you were describing are done by the Civil (Grading and Drainage, Water Quality, etc...) 
I wish architects here were more like you lol 

Ya we are a "jack of all trades" kind of professional. We can design literally every part of the building and site designs BUT we do have our limits. Both in just shear knowledge/expertise and from how far our license actually covers by law (and liability insurance haha). There are hard lines set by building codes and state laws but most architects don't try and creep too close to that line. We usually have a very good understanding of where are limits are and are good at telling the clients when to hire another professional to be on the team. I know architects that know enough about structures to design a skyscraper....and I know some that wont do structures for even an ADU. So it also very with the person too.

Me personally, I'm good with structures for single family and small MF. For civil I'm good with getting the rough grading to where it needs to be and ensuring that the sidewalks throughout the site are ADA accessible but any more than that I want a civil involved. I know my limits on my knowledge and I'm sure as hell not adding that kind of liability on me.  

Quote from @Marco Cruzatt:

Quote from @Nik Moushon:

Quote from @Marco Cruzatt:

You can have 2 carbon copies of the same floor plan but if the site varies then the Civil Plans will be different.   

uhhh.....what?! How are architectural plans not for construction purposes? This is an absurd statement. 

Depending on the site, the jurisdiction, and complexity of the project you do not have to hire a civil engineer for a project. Most small projects only need a surveyor to get updated boundary lines and possibly topo for an architect to be able to do the site plan. It's not until larger projects where you have to start considering storm water retention and run off that the jurisdiction requires a civil engineer is need to be brought onto the team. 

 Hi Nik, 
Perhaps I misspoke. I was referring to projects where the site had potential constraints.
Can you do provide structural calculations and structural plans? 
It is my understanding that when it comes to smaller projects, as long as you stay within the agency's standard plans. You don't need an Structural Engineer. Is that what you were referring to? 

 Marco,

As an architect we can do all the site design and planning. This includes topo, grading, cut/fill calcs, slope calcs and sizing for sewer and water, etc. It's when we start getting into doing large projects where the scale and complexity of the project is cost and time prohibitive that it is better to hire a professional that specializes in those things...ie the civil engineer. Same goes for structural design as well. My stamp covers all the calculations that a structural engineer can do....up to a certain size. Same for civil stuff too.

I don't remember exactly what that threshold is for either but good rule of thumb we usually stick by is single family and small multi family (some really small commercial) for structural and for civil we usually stick to just the single family and small multi family. A lot of times the local jurisdictions (at least here in WA state) have a lot of storm water requirements that kick in after a certain amount of square feet of the site is disturbed with new impervious surface...so thats where civil gets involved regardless of the complexity of the site bc thats state law.

Quote from @Marco Cruzatt:

You can have 2 carbon copies of the same floor plan but if the site varies then the Civil Plans will be different.   

uhhh.....what?! How are architectural plans not for construction purposes? This is an absurd statement. 

Depending on the site, the jurisdiction, and complexity of the project you do not have to hire a civil engineer for a project. Most small projects only need a surveyor to get updated boundary lines and possibly topo for an architect to be able to do the site plan. It's not until larger projects where you have to start considering storm water retention and run off that the jurisdiction requires a civil engineer is need to be brought onto the team. 

@David Rutledge

I second everything @Jared W Smith just said. The biggest being that unless all three parties agreed to transfer the original design contract, you have next to zero leverage on the architect to do anything as I doubt you have any contract with him. Personally, and in every office ive worked in, transferring contracts are not a thing. We do a new contract with the new owner. Selling properties before/during/after permitting is a common thing, we see it happen more often on large multi family than SF but it happens. Either way though...its a brand new contract. 

With that said though....the fact that the architect has been in communication with and implied that he is working on your behalf and working to get the drawings in for permit has now created an "implied contract" (i dont know the exact legal term for it). In a court of law the way he has acted has indeed implied that there was at least verbal agreement to continue working, which is a contract. But you'd have to take him to court to get this to work in your favor. So last resort kind of thing here.

My first suggestion would be to see if the architect would give you the permit ready documents and you submit them. Yes it can be a pain to deal with the city but now that they know the struggle you are dealing with, they are more than likely to work with you to get them in. More than likely there are comments needing to be addressed after their review so you will still need to work with the architect. 

Another suggestion is to see if the architect will release the drawings with offering a liability waiver. Having him provide the full permit ready documents and CAD/revit files to you so you can find another firm that can help you properly. This might cost you extra but at least you get to move forward. If there is an engineer involved already for the structural design you could go straight to them with the drawings and talk with them to see what they can do. They have the ability to stamp the entire set for submittal, and more likely too, since they did the design. Finding another architect to take over a drawing set will be tough....not impossible...just really tough. 

Some cities allow for building drawings to be submitted without an architects seal if they are under a certain square footage or meet other requirements. This would be another last resort option as then you have to figure out how to deal with everything the city throws at you comment wise. 

Last suggestion is to talk with your REA and have them be a part of the conversation with the selling agent. If the listing was sold based on the premise that the drawings were permit ready you potentially have a legal case against them as well. I wouldnt go in threatening law suites but start off by trying to get them and the seller involved....because the seller still has contractual rights with the architect to force his hand because permit drawings are independent of the land owner. You'll have to sign the permit drawings as the land owner but the contract is still enforceable by the seller. Though hopefully they are nice enough to even care to help. 

Quote from @Alex U.:

Typically if an architect is designing a duplex ADU, with the same floor plan on the top and bottom. They may charge $8-12k.

If this design was going to be replicated 8 times, ie 16 units total, what is a fair cost to pay for design, given it is a copy and paste of the first one?

 Architects designs are copyrighted just like artists paintings. So without their permission, legally, you can't reuse the same design over and over. It can be negotiated to be that way but be up front if you are going to do that. 

To your main question, its complicated. Is it all on the same site or 8 different sites? Each site is unique so that means 8 different site plans and a lot of other small things to double check and make sure everything works correctly. Even if its on the same site, every square foot of land is different from the next. Just lots of things to consider so its usually just time consuming things and not complicated design issues. 

If I was charging $10k for an duplex ADU, and have the same plan repeated 8x on the same site I would probably end up charging something in the $20-25k range. If it was all on different sites it would probably end up being $10k for the first and then probably charge hourly, around $3-5k is my guess, for each site, depending on the complexity of the site and the jurisdiction. The jurisdictions can waste so much of the architects/engineers time that it is very hard to predict.

And of course this is based on my local costs, not yours. So a local architect to you could be WAY different and be the normal price range for where you are. 

Quote from @Mark Williams:

Hi Nick, 

Getting a high-level guesstimate for your project might not provide you with the accuracy you need. I'd recommend having a few contractors assess your project in person. Many contractors offer free consultations and estimates. This way, you can get more precise cost estimates tailored to your specific situation, which will be much more valuable than a rough estimate from a distance. Regarding zoning, it's essential to consult your local zoning authority to determine the applicable zoning regulations for your project and whether it can still fall under single-family residential use. Local regulations can vary significantly, so it's best to get this information directly from the source.

-Mark

 I think you might have replied to the wrong thread....

Quote from @Nick Wehrley:

@Jared W Smith

So what I’ve found so far the building would be around $5,000 to relocate and purchasing the structure would be around 17-20k. The benefit to purchasing this over building would be that it already has a roof, siding, some windows.

 Is that an actual quote from a moving company or just your own research? $5k sounds way too cheap, i don't care where you live. $5k will only cover about three 8-hour days of work for 4-5 guys and thats just their salary, not any equipment or materials or other costs.

Lets just assume that you actually got a quote on that. What you need to double check is what are all the things that quote covers and doesn't cover. permit fees? car escort fee? gas and mileage? flaggers? Do you have to close any roads because theirs permits and fees and costs to police you have to pay? Can the building even fit down any of the roads or does it have to be cut in half or pieces? Are power lines in the way that need to be raised or unhooked? Are they insured (possible bonded)? 

I just find it hard to believe that if you can get a shell of a building for $20k, that moving a 800sf building is somehow a quarter of the cost. My only suggestion is that if you make sure to get a fully detailed and itemized quote and really figure out what is covered and not covered in the quote. This seems like its one of those things where the cost could balloon very easy on items you didn't realize where not covered. 

Unless all you are doing is dragging that building from one end of a field to another I can guarantee that building new will be cheaper than relocating a building. 

@Dylan Gilbert

Here is my journey on starting with new construction duplex build. 

https://www.biggerpockets.com/...

New construction is not as easy as it sounds. There are a LOT of steep learning curves you will need to learn with the little (no?) experience that you have. I wont shoot you down here but just be prepared to learn a lot really quickly and have backup plans when things go south.