All Forum Posts by: Nik Moushon

@Matt Joplin
@Julie Marquez

You are going to have a nearly impossible time trying to convince the city about changing their definition of an ADU. If you really want to go down that route you will have to get a lawyer involved and take them to court. We are dealing with the same thing over hear. The county is adding code and changing definitions base on "office policy"....which is blatantly illegal. I know, and you know, it says solid wall....but good luck getting to accept it. I'm sure they are wanting to change the wording of the code but thats not how it is now. Also, the fact that it is separated by a stairway with a door basically seals this an ADU.

NO ONE, and I mean no one, at any jurisdiction is unbiased. Once someone in there has made a decision they all stick to it. You will be hard pressed to find someone over ride another person. Thats just how governments run. 

The city cant prevent you from building something that is legally allowed. If you can make all the needed changes to meet the requirements of a duplex they cant tell you you cant do that. I would definitely hire a lawyer at that point. Again though, you have to have something submitted and rejected before you can bring a law suite. So you'd have to hire an architect to draw up the changes and have it rejected. Getting a variance for the lot size is one option and buying part of your neighbors property and adding an easement to it so they still get to "keep it" is another. 

The electrical work is an odd thing. I can understand why they would want you to remove it (bc of the ADU thing) but if it was permitted and inspected then....they cant make you remove it. Plus if you convert it to a duplex you can still use it. 

When looking for the permits, dont let the city do the looking for you. Most cities have online records of permits pulled and inspection reports. Odds are they are giving you the run-around. You can also put in a "request for information" form, usually through the city/county auditor and request all files for your address. Specifically on all permits and inspection reports. My county has an online form I fill out and then they email me once its done and theres an online portal where I can download it all. Usually takes a couple weeks. Just dont go to the planning department to get help anymore on anything. Also, make sure to reach out to the sellers and the sellers agent. Ask for information on the permits. Just remember that an owner can think everything was done with permits and the contractor never actually permitting anything. You have no idea how often that happens. With that said though you could go after the seller and the sellers agent for lying on the selling forms...again lawyers though and burning bridges. 

Julie is right that you can rent out rooms, but that only works when you share spaces. i.e. a shared kitchen and living space. So if you removed the kitchen you could rent out the upstairs as a "room" but they would be sharing the kitchen. Depending on the layout of the entire house you might be able to argue it better...but again...seems like the city is dead set on only allowing the kitchen to be removed as the only option. 

Julie, eliminating the door would technically remove the issue....but the cities dont see it that way. This a huge problem everywhere. Cities are interpreting building codes as they see fit. And until someone with deep pockets takes them to court and wins (not settling as that usually seals the outcome and its not made public). 

@Matt Joplin

First, you need to realize that the state of Washington (and lots of cities/counties) are cracking down on unpermitted additions and ADUs. Mainly because the STR issues and that the rising home prices are to be blamed on STRs. So you have a lot stacked against you to begin with. Regardless if you are in the right or not.

A couple things that need to be cleared up for you. Your "kitchenette" is a full blown second kitchen. Don't even both trying to call it a kitchenette to try and get around codes. Now the IRC doesnt put a restriction on second kitchens but it does put a restriction on number of units in a house. When you have a bedroom, bathroom & kitchen in a separate part of the house then you are effectively creating a second living unit. Now, is it truely separate? More on that later. 

Next, by state law, ADUs can be attached or detached. This trumps the city code. You can try arguing this but I'll get to that later. 

Next, just because it was existing when you bought it, does not mean it is legal or that it will get grandfathered in. If it wasn't properly permitted it is now your responsibility to fix it to meet code.

Next, state law currently requires that an ADU and main home be owner occupied to be able to be rented out to a full time tenant. That means you can only rent one of the units. If you dont live there you can only rent out the main house and not the ADU. It is also currently illegal to rent an ADU as a STR without being owner-occupied (this varies by city/county so check yours first). There are some proposed laws that would change the owner-occ requirement for LTR but dont bet on the STR restriction changing.

I see you have already tried to dialog with the city and they are basically all against you. So odds are that if you try to keep going in yourself you wont get anywhere. To be frank, you are not a professional that has experience with building or building codes/zoning (the vast majority of people arent) so even if you present codes correctly they arent going to take you seriously. You are going to need to get a professional to help you with you case. I would actually go to an architect first, over a lawyer. Not only are they going to have expert opinions on the local codes, they can help navigate with the city and help this get worked out. If you go in with a lawyer they will get defensive right off the bat.  Save the lawyer for when you actually have to take them to court. As I see it here are your options (with an architect first):

1 - You can try to present your case that the upstairs second unit (what they are calling a second unit) is not separated from the rest of the house and is just an extension of the main. That there is no intentions of and no current way to separate the second unit. BUT the fact that you have already rented this out (or were wanting to) proves that this is, and was your intention to, treat this as a second unit. This will be hard pressed to pass muster. 
2 - You can try to make your home a duplex. I dont know the layout of your home but 'usually' converting to a duplex is not that difficult. Your hurdle is the lot size requirement. This would require a variant though. It is possible but would take time and effort and could still be rejected. I think your best bet here is to prove that the addition/remodel was permitted. This would stop them from requiring you to remove the kitchen but there would still be restrictions on renting it (either STR or LT). But as soon as they cant make you remove it, I would think, they would work with you to make it compliant. 
3 - Making it a legal ADU. First, this would not require much work. You do not have to have separate utility connections and meters for an ADU, unless the city specifically requires it by code...most dont. Duplexes aren't required to have separate connections and meters...and traditionally they havent. Again, the city could require it but that doesnt make much sense to me. This does come with the rent restrictions that I mentioned above. But it does give it extra resale value. I would at least do this so if you cant do what you wanted to you can at least sell it and not have any issues coming back to you later. 
4 - Remove the second kitchen and turn it into a true kitchenette or wet bar. Now, removing it all would be the easiest route with the city. Labeling it a kitchenette or wet bar is another route, and legally you could do it, but odds are you will have a hell of a time getting the city to buy off. Even with an architect on board. I've just seen a lot of push back, even to this, even though they have to legal standing. The cities get to do as they please until they get sued. This would at least allow you to rent out the entire house as either a STR or LTR. 

5 - Getting a lawyer and suing the city. This is obviously a last resort and a very expensive option. The reason cities have become so authoritarian is because they know the average person doesnt have the money to fight them in court. You will more than likely have to go through an architect first and have your options, that have been considered legal and viable options, that meet the code and presented by a profession still get rejected before a lawyer is going to have the ability to see that you have a reasonable case against the city. There might be other requirements before going to court too....like going through several appeals processes. Which could take a very very very long time to go through. 

@Bart Tilly, welcome to the forums. There arent many of us from the area on here but a few. 

 I say first, that I dont know your area. So I dont know what the draw to these is there. But with my 10+ years in architecture I can say that container anything is completely over rated. They are not cheaper than traditional stick framed construction, and many cases, more expensive. For a lot of different reasons. Just go search the internet for reviews and you will see that people who build these thinking they will save money are almost always proven wrong by the end of the project. 

The spans in the structure that I can see will require a lot of big steel. This is expensive material and labor. All those solar panels, and more importantly, all the batteries and panels needed for them are very expensive and have a long pay back period for a lot of locations around the country. There are some areas and some circumstances where they make financial sense. You better make sure you really run the numbers on the ROI for them since they are very capital intensive.

I dont care how many "enthusiasts" you think you will attract, they arent going to over pay for a metal box with tiny windows. Maybe if you are next to a large university, where high turn over is accounted for, but a normal market...you'll have high turn over rates. The novelty wares off pretty fast. 

The STR should be the unit that makes you profit and the the LTR units should be the ones that pay the bills. Not the other way around. You have a massive amount of your expenses covered by one unit. You currently are saying that, of your total gross income, that 40% of it hinges on one unit. Even in a perfect world with great returns you wont be able to cover your expenses if your STR doesnt perform the way you are predicting. Again, I dont know your area, maybe there is enough draw, but thats a LOT of weight and risk put on one unit.

What are your expected rents on these? 

I'm having a hard time seeing how the rents for a 1 bedroom tiny home are going to justify what your renderings are showing.

you are going to need an architect no matter what you do with it. So I would go ahead and start looking for one and getting proposals. Most architects are going to be in the 3-6 months out right now. Thats before they can start, not to finish. 

Aaron, I've been in architecture for 10 years now and took that leap last year. Not full time, which has its pros and cons, but it was well worth it. I also did it completely by myself (my wife too of course) and no partners where needed. Ya, it was small but I was able to immerse myself in every aspect of the project and just what was left over. It's a steep learning curve but well worth it. I am confident and can do something on order of magnitude larger, by myself, if need be....and money allowing of course lol. My small development was short platting my primary residence and building a duplex on the new lot. I purposefully bought the house to do this, so it was just an after thought that I got lucky and had the land. No, I sought out and fought to get the house because I knew of the potential. I did a deep dive into the details in a long thread here: https://www.biggerpockets.com/...

You are in a prime position to repeat what I did since you are moving and could take advantage of buying a house in an area that is less expensive and lower cost of living than Portland.  Read my thread and feel free to DM me. More than willing to help out a fellow architect make the transition. 

@Kirsten Crotts You will need to start with the who ever control your water (city/county/PUD). They get to control where you put it and how its installed. Will need specific permits for this. Once you figure that out then any plumber can do. Its just finding one that can fit you in their schedule.

Congrats on the purchase. You should've made the previous owner do the evictions....if not i hope you got a hell of a deal for your trouble. 

You need to file eviction papers/notices immediately. Get a lawyer involved yesterday. State laws are changing, I think Jan 1, that make it even more difficult to get month to month tenants out. If i remember correctly there is a 3 month window to that allows you to change all month to month contracts into 6 or 12 month contracts. WA has effectively eliminated the month to month rental agreements now. Even remove the option that a 12m lease will auto renew into a month to month. Basically never do any kind of month to month ever again unless you can justify the risk. The new law makes to eviction process quadruple the time frame now. Its horrible. 

Get with a lawyer before christmas if you can. 

almost every arch firm uses revit or a similar 3d program. just find a local arch to help you design.