Skip to content
×
Pro Members Get
Full Access!
Get off the sidelines and take action in real estate investing with BiggerPockets Pro. Our comprehensive suite of tools and resources minimize mistakes, support informed decisions, and propel you to success.
Advanced networking features
Market and Deal Finder tools
Property analysis calculators
Landlord Command Center
ANNUAL Save 16%
$32.50 /mo
$390 billed annualy
MONTHLY
$39 /mo
billed monthly
7 day free trial. Cancel anytime
×
Try Pro Features for Free
Start your 7 day free trial. Pick markets, find deals, analyze and manage properties.
All Forum Categories
All Forum Categories
Followed Discussions
Followed Categories
Followed People
Followed Locations
Market News & Data
General Info
Real Estate Strategies
Landlording & Rental Properties
Real Estate Professionals
Financial, Tax, & Legal
Real Estate Classifieds
Reviews & Feedback

All Forum Posts by: Dean I.

Dean I. has started 18 posts and replied 118 times.

1. Don't assume anything: I assumed that I couldnt get into flipping houses because I had no money saved up. I further assumed that I would have to wait a couple more years to build up that savings. Two years wasted.

2. Talk to the right people. One of the reasons I continued to assume the above is because I spoke with a real estate broker buddy of mine who basically confirmed my assumptions. Needless to say, I'm not using him as my agent today.

3. Do your research before you think your ready. Ironically, I already knew this from past business experience, but again, my assumptions got in the way. Had I started researching flipping houses when I first wanted to get into it, I would have realized that I didnt actually need any money to get started and I would have started my flipping career many years ago and probably had a really nice portfolio to boot.

4. Accepted less on my first flip. Conventional wisdom says to get as much profit out of a deal as possible, but looking back, I wish I had accepted a lower offer, closed on the house and moved on to the next one. Instead it took 6 months to sell my first house. Now, I still try to get as much as I can out of each flip, but not at the expense of not being able to move to the next one.

5. Keep doing the numbers. My second major mistake I made when I first started flipping houses was to aim for too high of a profit. It took me almost a year to find my second flip. I reran the numbers for the houses I bid on in the past and realized that other investors were shooting for a lower profit margin than I was. Once I realized this, I readjusted my profit margin and immediately started getting offers accepted and I started flipping houses one after the other. I didn't every over accepted though, just enough of them to keep my pipeline full.

Post: The math just isn't working :(

Dean I.Posted
  • Tucson, AZ
  • Posts 120
  • Votes 127
Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
Originally posted by @Kelly Carter:

Hi @Jay Hinrichs, I lived in Portland for 12 years :) We do have plenty of reserves, but all of our research suggested a HELOC can be a good tool for new investors - including Brandon Turners book. All cash would be really limiting for most new investors - even if we bought a foreclosure that needed work it would likely be 80k or more. I'm also aware that all cash will definitely affect our ROI negatively. Anyway, our plan was to either a) buy a lower priced reo in need of rehab with just our HELOC, and then refinance into a conventional loan after a bit, or b) buy something with a conventional mortgaged and use the HELOC as our down payment - which would lo likely only be about 15% of our HELOC limit any anyway. And the properties we are considering are inexpensive enough that we can cover the payments if need be. I get the cash only mentality, but that would exclude all but a few from being able to invest. This would be a temporary way for us to get started and be able to pay back the heloc in short order.

I did not mean cash only I meant to create equity either forced.. I really like the BRRR in certain markets with certain folks.. and or use your cash for a down payment. to 100% finance just to buy rental were is that going to get U I would think if your going to borrow your equity you may want to start a business or something that will actually pay you some money instead of Max debt and 1000 or 2 a YEAR in cash flow.. just sayin.... use 100k heloc and buy into a business or team with great contractor on flips you should make 20k or 30k a year not 2 to 3k...

This is a good point. You can take your HELOC and use it as a down payment towards a rental and maybe get a little cash flow from it each month, or you can take that HELOC and use it towards a flip and make another 10k to 20k profit. Do that a few times and you can easily fund you rentals as I was saying before. But to Jay's point, you are basically creating a new business that will bring you a lot more income. This is only our second year of flipping houses and we are already set to break 100k in profit so far this year and it is only May. Personally, I love the idea of creating a business that generates lots of revenue (flipping houses) and also gives me the ability to invest in passive income (rentals).

Post: The math just isn't working :(

Dean I.Posted
  • Tucson, AZ
  • Posts 120
  • Votes 127

@Kelly Carter

It's hard to speak on CapEx because I don't know how much money you are putting into the renovations and what the lifespan of the rest of the main components are. That and I am still trying to figure out this bit myself. That being said, the rest looks about right.

I would suggest flipping a few houses first in order to get some capital. In fact, I personally would flip a couple houses, buy a rental, flip a couple more, buy another rental. As long as you are making enough profit from the flips to keep the flips going and buy rentals, this might be the way to go. Speaking as a house flipper, not all house flippers are the same and you don't have to be like the dishonest ones that @Jim K. is speaking of. You can be honest and still make great money. 

As for offers, offer whatever amount works with the numbers, even if that means offering significantly less. You wont get every property you bid on, you wont even get most of them, if you do it right, you will only get a few. 

Also, you will have a hard time finding properties that will cash flow at 100% financing, unless you can buy the house at 75-80% of the value or less. This means you will have to buy distressed properties, but that is where the good deals are and that is where you are going to get your equity and cashflow.

Don't cut property management out of the equation. You never know what the future may hold and if you can continue to self manage.

Finally, you may just have to look in a different market. 

You probably wont need to replace all or any of the drywall. Usually 1 or 2 coats of kilz or zinsser will usually do it. As for the sub floors, as long as they arent soft, you can probably get away with using kilz or zinsser too. There is a good chance you will have to replace some of the base boards though. 

I would also suggest that you have a clean up crew bleach the walls and trim before priming the walls. 

It could be a full gut (or close to it) as you suggest, but in my experience that is usually not the case.

I know this is a revived thread, but since I was a painting contractor in a previous life, I figured I would give my professional opinion on this concerning rentals and flips.

Exterior Brand and Grade: Currently (because in the past you couldn't pay a real painter to use it), Behr Premium Plus paint is very high quality and rated one of the best paint brands on the market. It covers and holds up very well. That being said, I am still hesitant to try it on the inside of a house only because I have had so many problems in the past and I have other "go to" paints for the interior.

Exterior Sheen: Satin or better. Never use flat. Satin has enough sheen to be washable, while also hiding many imperfections. Flat paint looks fine at first, but after it rains a few times, it will look like a dirty chalk board. Don't even try to pressure wash it. Keep in mind that Solid Stain is different and falls into a category of it's own.

Paint Type: Use water based paint, not oil. 

Primer: Always use exterior primer on bare wood. Even if the paint says it is a paint and primer in one, don't believe it. While it may have some priming abilities, I would not trust it for the long haul and I would expect to have to replace rotten wood much sooner. I would also personally stick with oil based primer. Kilz or Zinsser are the brands I would stick with.

Exterior Paint Color: This is usually a matter of preference, but here are a few things to consider. If you are in a typical neighborhood, then you will want to stay neutral. Neutral colors in general are moving away from browns and beiges and more towards blues and grays. With that being said, you will also have to learn to work with what you got. For instance, if the roof is brown (and painting it is not an option) then go with warmer tone colors. If the roof is black or grey, go with more grey or cool tones. Keep in mind, your roof is a huge part if the overall color scheme on the outside of your house. As for trim color, you generally can't go wrong with a good clean white.

Interior Paint Brand and Grade: Both BM and SW are great paints and I have used both. Some grades are better than others and some simply aren't worth the money. Personally, I use PPG WonderTones for the walls, BM advanced for the Trim and Cabinets and PPG 1801 Wonder Shield for trim on rentals and lower end flips.

Interior Sheen: Eggshell for walls, Satin or Semi-Gloss for trim, for both rentals and flips. You don't ever want to go flat on either. Flat is not washable and it collects oils and dirt from peoples hands, head and any other parts of the body that may touch the walls or trim. It also has a tendency to soak in any type of moisture that touches it, to include, drinks, food, urine and other bodily fluids. Your goal when it comes to rentals is to be able to hide as many imperfections as possible, while also being able to clean the walls and trim after a move out, rather than paint. In the very least, you want to be able to clean up as many walls and trim as possible and paint as little as possible. You may find yourself, cleaning the walls and trim in some rooms and repainting some walls and trim in the other rooms. Still better than a full repaint. This is also why it is important to stick with the same colors so that you can easily do touch ups or paint single walls in a room. For flips, the goal is similar. You want to hide as many imperfections as possible, while also providing a decent product to the future home owner that will allow them to clean their walls for years to come. 

For ceilings, you generally want to go with a flat white for both rentals and flips. But on lower end rentals, you may want to go with an eggshell so that the ceilings are also washable. This is especially true for lower end apartments, town homes and duplexes. 

For closets in flip houses, I would go with a flat ceiling white for small closets and I would go with the wall color of the rooms in walk in closets. For rentals, I would go with eggshell white.

Paint type: Water based, not oil based.

Interior Primer: You can go with either water based or oil based here. However, I would highly suggest using an oil based anywhere there is a lot of moisture. Kilz or Zinsser are the brands I would stick with.

Interior Paint Colors: As I have mentioned already, cooler grey tones are trending, so stick with those. BM GreyTint (cooler, bluer color) and SW Agreeable Grey (more of a greige) are good choices. Trim generally go white. 

Additional notes: For most flips and definitely most rentals, you shouldn't go too crazy on color design. Just stick with neutrals and what looks good. Don't worry too much about accent walls (unless it is really needed for a flip) or multiple colors. Basically, just keep it simple. For super low end flips, you may even want to go with an antique white on both walls and trim, even ceilings. Just make sure you stick with the same paint and sheen. That being said, I think that this makes for a really ugly rental and it generally don't advise it.

My wife has family in the area that she visits and we have been discussing buying some rental properties in the area so that we can write off part of our trips to Montevideo. I know that the mid west in general is good for rentals, but I was hoping that some of you who are investing in the area could point me to some specific locations around Montevideo that would be ideal to purchase some rental properties. 

Thanks in advance,

Dean

Post: BRRRR. What am I missing?

Dean I.Posted
  • Tucson, AZ
  • Posts 120
  • Votes 127

@Alexander Felice

So in your opinion, If I use the PM you suggested and I get my vacancy lower and find a property with lower property taxes, I will get closer to $100 a month on similar properties? I just want to make sure I an understanding you correctly.

Thank you for taking your time to respond BTW.

Post: BRRRR. What am I missing?

Dean I.Posted
  • Tucson, AZ
  • Posts 120
  • Votes 127

@Chris Ayers

I totally get that. I guess my thing is that I have read that others are getting decent cashflow from the BRRRR strategy, so why would I also not shoot for the same thing?

The general consensus seems to be that my CapEx is the main problem, which I get. I just have a feeling that @Brandon Turner may not agree lol.

Post: BRRRR. What am I missing?

Dean I.Posted
  • Tucson, AZ
  • Posts 120
  • Votes 127

@Alexander Felice

. . . My issue is not that $100 not enough, my issue is that I can't even break even when doing the math (mostly because of CapEx) . . . I would be completely satisfied with around $100 a month. I understand that this is a numbers game and that the more doors you own, the more passive income you will have. I also get that we are dealing with the law of averages. Some months, expenses will be very little, while other months they will be a lot. As you already know, I am looking in the Fayetteville area for rentals, but the properties I have looked at, look like the example I gave in the first post. Here is a break down of one property I was looking at in Fayetteville. This is the same example from the first post, but I have decreased the CapEx, Repairs and Vacancy to 5% of the rent.

1200sqft SFH

3 bed/2 bath

Rent$850.00
CapEx 5%$42.50
Repairs 5%$42.50
Vacancy 5%$42.50
Mortgage$437.68
Insurance$67.00
HOA$0.00
Property Management$85.00
Property Taxes$110.00
Total Expenses$827.18
Cash Flow$22.82

So, even if I decrease the CapEx, Repairs and Vacancy to 5% of the rent, I'm only cash flowing $23 a month. It was also suggested that maybe my insurance is high, so I have emailed some insurance companies for quotes. But even if I can save a few dollars there, it probably wont break $50 cash flow. I would love to know how you cash flow $100 a month on a property worth $100k, that rents for $850 a month, when you have a $75k mortgage. Maybe you are getting higher rents? Maybe you are investing in an area with lower property taxes?

EDIT: As I am typing this response, I got an insurance quote for $33 less than what I was originally quoted, BUT the deductible is 10k. This would get me to a cash flow of $55 a month. Not sure if the trade off is worth it though. Even so, not quite $100 cash flow that I am looking for.

Post: BRRRR. What am I missing?

Dean I.Posted
  • Tucson, AZ
  • Posts 120
  • Votes 127

@Joe Splitrock

Thank you for taking the time to thoroughly read through the posts and thoroughly answer my question.

This does help give me some perspective, especially since you are giving me real life examples of long term buy and hold properties. 

I do plan on having long term buy and hold properties, but my initial goal is to 1031x up to apartment complexes, which will be my long term holds. In the mean time, I want to enjoy the tax benefits and passive income that comes with rentals, while I work towards that goal. From my understanding the BRRRR strategy should allow me to do that, while also allow me to reinvest my cash back into more rentals or flips.

Again, thank you for taking the time to read through this thread and respond to my question.