All Forum Posts by: Brad S.

1) Determine market CR
Find more duplex comps and calculate their CR, then reconcile those cap rates to estimate the market CR

2) Analyze the deal
Estimate the NOI (net annual operating income-after expenses) of your Subject duplex. This may include a proforma (projected income) from any value-adds you can do or raising rents, etc. Then you take the NOI and divide by your estimate market cap rate to get the estimated value.
Example:
market cap rate = 7%
Estimated NOI (annual) =$28,000
Value = $28,000/7% (or 0.07) = $400,000

Now, you can compare the value/s with the offer price of the Subject. So, you may decide that you want to purchase the Duplex for $300k and put $30k into, in order to raise the rents (proforma) to get to the $28k NOI and thereby raising the value to $400k.

So, basically, you are estimating the market CR, then you determine the income possibilities of the Subject, and then use the market CR to determine the deal potential.

3) MOST IMPORTANTLY
Cap rates are typically not that useful for 1-4 unit properties. 1-4's are typically valued by sales comps (comparables), not the income approach. Too much variability and motivation differences in 1-4 properties, to be useful. 

Hope that's helpful!

Quote from @Eliott Elias:

Quote from @Account Closed:

Quote from @Eliott Elias:

Quote from @Account Closed:

Quote from @Doug Fluckiger:

My wife and I own a couple of STRs and would like to get into the fix & flip game, but we need to start small. We're looking for a house ≤ $100k with an ARV of ≥$160k, off-market, mostly cosmetic rehab, B or better neighborhood. Can be older, # of BRs & BAs doesn't matter to us. We've been looking in the Midwest but are open to anywhere. Do you have suggestions for markets for this kind of deal?

For a fix & flip you have to have available buyers or you get stuck with the property and you end up trying to rent it. Small poor towns are not a good choice. Don't get sucked into FOMO (Fear of missing out). 

There are buyers for any property, as long as the price is right.

Your Comment: There are buyers for any property, as long as the price is right.

That's a "nonsense" answer.
I think he intends to make a profit.

 All real estate has value, buying right applies to any case.

OK, i'll be nice...
Your inexperience and naivety are showing. 

You were half right with the first part - "All real estate has value" ....and sometimes that value is negative. And more food for thought...."value" extends far beyond money or cost.

The second part of your bot's response is just off the rails.

Quote from @Joseph Brown:

I've been getting quotes in Westchester between $200,000 - $250,000 is the price range. They said cheaper if I convert my garage.

What size ADU are those $200k-$250k quotes for? And is that for everything, including soft costs (permits, etc) or just the building costs?

Quote from @David A.:

Hey Brad,

As a recent data point, I've got friend who's currently doing a ~650 SF ADU garage conversion in the valley for 165k not including finishes.

I’d be all for a way to reduce the build cost but a reduced time to build would also be a huge advantage. 

My home down in Encinitas is manufactured and would make a perfect ADU so this might be one avenue that could work. The coastal cities are still approving new manufactured units (seismic be dammed) so there has to be a way to have them meet the current requirements.

And there you are ! :)  I was just talking about you, somewhere above.  :) If you don't mind sharing, what was your final costs on your ADU you showed me?

Thanks for the datapoint David. So, that's a little above $250/sf, just for a conversion! Even with the small footprint, that seems high, but typical these days. I will definitely let you know as I get further in my research and projects. I have 2 projects in planning right now, which I plan on using 2 different building system for, and I'll see what those #'s work out to be. I'm pretty confident I can get the per sf cost significantly down, but we'll see what the real #'s come out to be. 

My partner and I are talking with a prefab company who is in process of bringing their product to the US, and per them, they are currently able to be around $110-$140/sf for the building (including finishes, cabinets, etc) , not including site prep, etc. It is also steel based framing, so no wood and better fire resistance. We may end up rep'ing them in CA, they are just now trying to get their factory up and running.

Quote from @Scott E.:

In hindsight I wish I had built 10 of them at that price. 2017 was a loooooong time ago. And times have changed...

No kidding, I wish I would've kept the one we built back then. 2017 does feel like decades ago!
My 2017 build was also my first full new build also, I had done dozens of flips and major rehabs, etc, but this one needed to go from 900sf to as large as zoning would allow. That project is shown on my profile page somewhere.

Thanks for your insights!

Quote from @Dan H.:

Good luck

Yes, I am aware of the increases. that's why I have been so hesitant and conservative on any major rehabs or builds the past few years. I did a full rehab, no additions, last year, and the cost of that was ridiculous! But, luckily my underwriting was conservative enough to where we still did ok.

Our house is not very large, around 1,650sf. But, we kept the footprint and fdn, beefed it up where needed, new subfloor, and kept a few walls, everything else was demo'd and replaced. Actually, I'm sure we could've done better with the costs, if I was a little efficient with some things.

Quote from @Scott E.:

If you're building an ADU you're going to need things like..

1. Probably some site work/grading

2. A new slab

3. New sewer line ran to the unit (or septic)

4. New electrical panel

5. Water lines run from main to ADU

6. Not to mention all new framing, insulation, roof, drywall, HVAC system, wiring, rough plumbing, etc etc.

Not trying to discourage you. Just outlining a few reasons why you might discover that your $150/SF number is unrealistic.

That's not discouraging at all, that actually makes me more hopeful. I'm thinking of the building costs, not including the site improvements (grading, main sewer line/hookup, etc). So, I know those will add on top of the costs. 

One system we are looking at is a prefab. We are being told they can do between $110-$140k/sf for the building, then there are the site costs, fdn, etc. But, then I have a couple other systems I am looking at, which look promising. So, the more other builders or investors are having to pay for construction, the more room we have to better the costs. So, if the going rate for basic is around $250/sf, then I can come in at $200/sf, including profit, and do fine. Assuming I can get those costs down where I need them.

Quote from @Scott E.:

Yes $150/sf sounds very attractive, but I agree with Bruce. $250 is much more realistic. Even if you're building the thing yourself you're going to have a hard time building for $150/sf.

Thanks Scott! I appreciate the reply!

Yeah, I know this is going to be a challenge, but I do feel there is a big opportunity to find alternative ways to keep build costs down these days. Costs have skyrocketed for basic builds. I rebuilt my own house in 2019 for around $175/sf, so I totally get it, but I am up for the challenge!

Quote from @Bruce Woodruff:

I just don't see how you get 'er done for $150 SF. I was bidding these out higher than that back when they first became a big thing in San Diego (Around 2018). The city was already giving out pre-approved plans which saved a lot of time, money and hassle...but building costs are what they are. Plus the special 'alleged green' requirements for CA were costly (mandatory mini-splits, special insulation, tankless WH, etc)

I'd be curious what you could net as a builder even with a system(s) in place. I'd bet it will be higher than $250 SF in todays market. And these are not all that attractoive for a builder anyway...kinda something to do when you're slow...

Thanks for your reply Bruce. I met someone on BP that recently (2022) built a local 800sf ADU for around $150k or so. I should find out what is final cost was though. But, I do remember him saying his contractor realized he underbid it as he was nearing the end. And that is still near $200/sf

In 2017, I was able to complete a higher end 2700sf build for under $400k, which included the CA LID (Low impact development) requirement. That was an extra cost I had not been aware of when we started that project!  My contractor amazingly knew how to get good quality work done for amazing prices, but unfortunately, that relationship soured for other reasons.

But, I am looking at nontraditional building methods, so I'm hopeful those costs will significantly differ from typical stick-built construction.

Quote from @Bjorn Ahlblad:

I have friends in Silicon Valley who are building ADU's for 550-600k and more. I know, I could not believe it either.

That's crazy!  I guess they have money to burn then.

I was up in SF right before the tech craze, in the 90's, guess I should've stayed there!