All Forum Posts by: Shane Moore

@Shane Moore,

First, let me say whether you get S8 or a working tenant-- it 100% depends on the tenant.     I have 1 I absolutely love, we are going on 6 years and I love having her as a tenant.  I have terminated separate 3 -S8 leases because of disrespect and they were trashing my house.  It's really a different mindset and attitude, hard to explain but it's just different.  

Second-- If you are going to focus on S8, realize you aren't dealing with tenants who have a lot of extra disposable income.  My best advice is the charge the absolute highest amount per your local guidelines, because you'll need to include regular HVAC maintenance, filter changes (they won't do it, promise!), pest control, landscaping, breaking appliances, people are hard on these houses!  Knowing what I know now, I'd also include a professional cleaner to come once a year.    Seriously, you won't even know the real damage until they move out.  

 The more you can include, the better that way you know it's actually being taken care of.  I think they'll be happier too if stuff is included in rent, as it's not an extra expense on them!

 The class of neighborhood kind of dictates what credit score you should require. I have one community that was so bad, that it made no sense to ask for a credit score because anyone moving there all had jacked up credit. I would never have a renter. However, in my class C or Bs, if I do section 8 I require from 600 to 640. There is no special formula for that. I know people who go much lower and much higher. It just depends. Also, I know how to read people. I evacuate their energy and how they move. I've had women come through to view the place with all kinds of attitude and negative vibes. I know these are the types that will give me a major headache as a landlord. Look at the criminal history. Make sure they have refences and see what they think. Talk to past landlords and evaluate the experiences they have had. Social media says a lot about a person. If they always seem to be in turmoil, it may not be a good fit. If they are always taking about how they cussed this bit## out or how they put their foot in someone's azzz daily, may not want to deal with that energy. There are many other methods but with these basic gestures it will take you a long way. I build mutually respectful relationships, and it goes well for most. Another thing to beware of is some single mothers. Many of them are fine but they bring along dudes who create all kinds of problems for you and the property. I can say, it can be challenging and at times you have to put up with more than you would with an ordinary rental, but I have managed to make all this work overall. One thing you said that stood out to me. You said something about providing some type of positive service to the community. Now this is my personal opinion, and you can do what you want. I had that mindset as well. That changed for multiple reasons and the advocacy and business don't seem to align well in this business. I do my community advocacy away from my business in this aspect. What i still do along those lines is provide them with a positive landlord experience, respect and a nice place to live. Many landlords do not. Overall, I want you to win, and you are doing it right by doing this kind of research up front. 

Best of luck. 

I have done either section 8 or low income the majority of my run at this. I see a lot of valuable information in this thread. However, I do caution you there are several in BP who have no idea what they are talking about in regard to this and give you some of the most azzz backwards advice on this. Please be selective on who you get this info from, and your best bet is to pay close attention to those who have made this work for years successfully. Number one, you have to know and understand the environment you will be investing in. Two, it's great to have some understanding of the culture. Three, you emphatically have to know how to screen. You can't just put anyone there because they have a voucher. Four, treat them with decency and respect, and build some kind of mutually, grounded relationship. It's a few more, but these are some fundamentals that go a very long way. 

@Shane Moore

Great question about Section 8 tenants and their "character."

In my previous career as a Director of Operations (now an Investomen Realtor), overseeing about 9,000 single-family homes based out of Atlanta, I saw the good, the bad, and the ugly when it came to Section 8. I'll share some of the hard KPI data we tracked, as well as a few softer, more anecdotal observations:

Hard Facts:

1. Higher Turnover Costs, Longer Tenancy: Property turns (make-ready costs) tend to be higher after a Section 8 tenant moves out. However, the upside is that their tenancy is usually longer, often because it's one of their few stable housing options. A tenant who stays 10 years can be far more profitable than three market-rate tenants who each stay three years and require three separate costly turns.

2. Higher Cash Flow, Lower Appreciation: Generally, properties with Section 8 tenants will have higher gross incomes, cap rates, and cash flow. The trade-off is often lower property appreciation, due to the demographic and economic trends in lower-income areas.

3. Vacancy Risk on Turnover: When a Section 8 tenant moves out, there isn't always a "line out the door" of new voucher holders ready to move in. Vacancy losses can sometimes be longer compared to traditional rentals.

4. Payment Delays: Depending on the housing authority, voucher payments can be delayed, sometimes significantly. For example, Fulton County (GA) could take months to process initial payments, eventually paying several months at once after a tenant moved in. Make sure you factor that cash flow timing into your projections.

Softer Observations:

1. Relationship Matters: Building a good relationship with your Section 8 tenants can go a long way. Many of these tenants have faced tough circumstances and simply want to be treated fairly and with dignity, not just as another "unit number." Tenants who feel respected tend to take better care of the property and stay longer.

It sounds like you're already on the right track by building relationships and establishing a pipeline before vacancies arise. Being proactive is critical, especially because waiting on the government side of the process can take time.

I'd also recommend checking with local housing authorities. I’ve had good experiences working with the Marietta Housing Authority , very professional and helpful. There may be a similar resource in Houston County that can assist you.

Best of luck, and feel free to reach out if you’d like to discuss further. Happy to help if I can!

Mark Faulkner

 Absolutely! I think its super useful to share the books that have had the biggest impacts or "ah ha" moments among each other! Hope you grab it sooner than later! 

@Shane Moore Many of our Section 8 tenants have been single mothers with 2 different gender kids, which requires them to have a 3 br unit. Many have full time or part time jobs. One was a low paid state worker, another was a LPN, while another worked at a day care. 3 people in a 3 br unit is the least number of tenants possible and therefore least wear and tear. Most of our Section 8 tenants get partial rent payment and only few have gotten near full rent payments. We have had section 8 tenants who were single elderly tenants, and we have also rented 4 and 5 bedroom section 8 tenants. They 4 br house was rented to a family with 2 parents and 8 sons. They could not find many places that would rent to a family with 8 boys. They ended up staying 12 years, and were very organized and good tenants. The 5 br house was rented to a 3 generational family, who came from another housing program for homeless, and the housing authority was housing them in a hotel. They stayed 8 years. The housing authority does yearly inspections, and sometimes spot inspections if there are some problems. One of our tenants had monthly inspections due to poor "housekeeping" issues; until they corrected the problem. Inspection items are pretty standard, no peeling paint, no cracked glass, railings on stairs (inside and outside including basements and attics), heat and electric to every room, and a range. The HUD approved rents for the entire country is on the HUD website.

@Shane Moore That is tremendous! That bank must be VERY comfortable with real estate lending. Is it based in ATL? Are you buying the properties in an LLC or in your personal name?

@Shane Moore That's what I figured (being a pastor), but I didn't want to assume. Is your local bank doing DSCR loans at 1.25x with a 70% LTV?

I have done either section 8 or low income the majority of my run at this. I see a lot of valuable information in this thread. However, I do caution you there are several in BP who have no idea what they are talking about in regard to this and give you some of the most azzz backwards advice on this. Please be selective on who you get this info from, and your best bet is to pay close attention to those who have made this work for years successfully. Number one, you have to know and understand the environment you will be investing in. Two, it's great to have some understanding of the culture. Three, you emphatically have to know how to screen. You can't just put anyone there because they have a voucher. Four, treat them with decency and respect, and build some kind of mutually, grounded relationship. It's a few more, but these are some fundamentals that go a very long way. 

@Shane Moore How do you finance your properties? Local banks/credit unions that see the CRA (Community Reinvestment Act) type of work you're doing, or perhaps a CDFI that lends to mission oriented organizations like yours?

Also, what is an Astor?