All Forum Posts by: John Arendsen

Not sure why you would want to spend 2-3k on old PRE HUD singlewides or any wides for that matter. PRE HUD or not. What would you do with them? Where would you put them? If they're in a MH rent/lease park community you most likely wouldn't be able to sub lease them because most MHP owners don't allow sub letting.

In answer to your other question re: owner financing? You're absolutely right Dodd Frank would slap your knuckles pretty hard for that unless it was a one time deal and it was your own home and you agreed to take a down payment and let the buyer pay you over a period of time. But even that can be sticky. 

As one holding the paper you could also end up being the one holding the bag should the buyer just simply decide that they didn't want to make anymore payments to you. In fact I know of a person who got deliberately scammed by a couple of pretty shrewd operators who knew about the SAFE/DF law and played the seller to the max on it and actually ended up with the home and it wasn't a MH.

Personally after 3 decades in this biz doing just about everything there is to do in it I see very little value spending any money on old beaters. Besides they blight the landscape and are ready for the boneyard. Think new my friend and I'd be thinking multi wides not singlewides. 

I'm not quite getting the formula you're demonstrating especially the cap rate part. 

"lotsxrentx12x0.7 operating expense/0.1caprate= rough ask price

50x385x12x0.7/0.1= 1,617,000"

But all that aside you kinda summed it all up with great candor when you referred to the druggies. That's definitely not a very positive sign. Had you said a bunch of seniors, even if on welfare, that would have gotten some attention albeit not at that price point. At first glance that's about 32k/space which seems pretty pricey to me for an RV park the way you've laid it out.

I go along with the highest and best use and potential redevelopment. However, that would require rejoining and if Oregon is anything like Cali they covet their low income affordable housing lots and getting something like that accomplished can tie you up for years and cost so much more than the land would be worth at the end of the day. But then again that's in Cali.

I totally agree with @William Howley. As they say there are five things in life you shouldn't do. 

1. Draw on Gene Autry.

2. Sword fight with Zorro

3. Piss into the wind

4. Mess with the kid

5. Try to make fudge brownies from mud.

If you feel there's an ROI and passive income value to the property buy it and fulfill its highest and best use. Or climb to the highest hill and shout to the top of your lungs.........................N E X T!!!

You might start with calling some of the listed MH's that are for sale. Call and ask them the name of the park and where they have to go to get it registered. Some states like California have a designated regulatory agency i.e. The California Community of Housing and Development aka HCD which is regulated by the state.

Other states still use the Department of Motor Vehicles aka DMV or the Department of Transportation aka DOT. Once you've determined who regulates the industry you can usually get public information regarding park ownership, etc.

Or the MHC could be a resident owned Condo Conversion, Sub Division or Planned Unit Development aka PUD which you couldn't purchase because the residents own the park community as a land home package and therefore the community would be on the county assessors tax rolls.

Feel free to reach out anytime @Jerry Holt. That's what this forum is all about. There's so much happening in the MH Industry nowadays and so many new and better products available that will genuinely help gentrify the thousands of MHP's throughout the USA. 

But that stated, there's also so many old, worn out and run down MHC's no longer in the path of progress that frankly, IMO, should be closed and rezoned for higher and better use. But no matter what stay tuned to the many threads on BP on this subject if you're really interested in investing in it. 

There's a lot of very valuable information and knowledge you can get and it's absolutely free for the most part. There's many free podcasts and webinars that are very credible and factual that you can learn a lot from as well. There's also a few pay to play webinars and podcasts that although expensive are very informative.

Ha! A motivated seller will sell if a particular need arises that may motivate them as @Howard Abell has so aptly stated. Or if their MHP is in a blighted, neglected or abused condition or area. If they're distressed it's probably for a good reason; location,demographics & socio/economics.

If the park is in a geographically desirable area that's in the path of progress don't hold your breath waiting for a good deal to come your way. Bottom line? If you can buy it cheap............that's not necessarily a good sign. 

What you really need to do is a lot of due diligence. Buying something on the cheap does not always yield the greatest results. If your capital restricted find some partners if you stumble onto a good deal that's above your price point. 

It's not always about what fits your buying criteria in this biz. It's more about how the price fits the criteria of the buyer/s.

I'm with @Bill Neves & @Ken Rishel 100%. 

Gentlemen, I know I came off a little sarcastic, if not crass, in that last rant. But I just don't believe in painting an entire industry with such a broad brush. I don't know you Bill and I've never met you Ken albeit I'd sure like to get to know you both.

I have read a number of your very clear headed, intelligent and knowledgable articles and posts along with all the comments and replies and you are spot on in the way you articulate and handle yourself Ken.

Bill, you're no rookie in this biz either I can tell. You are the type of folks that I enjoy networking with and possibly even getting to know at some point. There's more and more very interesting things happening in this industry today than ever before. There's also myriad ways to capitalize on it. 

There's much newer and better product on the market than ever before. Old homes must be replaced with new homes, parks need to be upgraded, converted, etc. HUD and MOD's are flying off the shelves for multi story, multi family, condo, du, triplex, quad, small apt. building, mid-rise motels/hotels, etc.

I think you get the message

But even more importantly I'm getting excited about all the new folks out there, young and us, who are looking at various aspects of this industry and wondering where they might fit in? Or, perhaps how those who have had decades of experience might reinvent themselves?

I'm for helping folks like that out in any way I can. Be it just lip service on threads like this or more.

The tiny house movement is in. At least in my backyard. However, I'm not suggesting we try to reinvent the wheel by figuring out how to legitimize, package and market this fledgling cottage industry; that will be coming soon enough. 

The engine and niche I'm referring to is quality affordable housing thats already here and totally ready to fly off the shelfs. That engine will be driven by the largest, most energetic, well educated and bright demographic in our economy today. The Millennial. 

I don't know about you folks but I'm gleaning an inordinate amount of questions and thoughts about our industry than I've ever seen before; and not just on BP; 

Being more on the retail end of this biz often gives me the opportunity to witness the different trends that loom on the horizon over time. What I'm seeing now is a whole new and exciting thing. In fact I get the same warm fuzzies that I did when I was on the line at Golden West in the 60's during my college days. 

Me thinks we should do a wee bit more listening.

Boy, @Brandt Smith and @Thomas S. I'd sure hate to be in the MH biz in your neck of the woods. My little nest of MH investments is along the Norh San Diego Coast and I can tell you from over 30 years in this biz doing everything and anything there is to to in it that I've never once had the kind of tenants you're describing. 

Many of my former and present tenants and clients are very well healed. In fact there's a few millionaires I run with that not only own manufactured homes and rent them out, Use them as a vacation or 2nd home and/or own MHP's they love living in MH's. 

So sorry to hear you folks out your way have such poor tenants. I certainly wouldn't want to be dealing with that either. YUK!

Perhaps I'm not connecting all the dots. So are you going to be purchasing the MH ready and approved  land and just installing a few homes on it at first and then expanding? Or is it an existing park that you are looking at as a possible acquisition? Or are you thinking about purchasing a few in an existing MHP, fixing them up and renting them? 

If your answer is yes to the last question then you need to make sure that the owner of that park allows sub letting/leasing. Many if not most MHP owners will not allow sub leasing. At least thats the way it's predominately don in Cali.

I must respectfully agree with @Ken Rishel. You can't paint an entire industry with such a broad bunch. You have succeeded in insulting a lot of very intelligent, well heeled and sophisticated folks in so doing. 

True on one point. There are a lot of very run down  MHP's throughout the USA and other places that may fit your very broad profile. However, there are a lot more that are not run down, neglected or abused. 

Personally, I have, still and will continue to invest in MH's and currently own quite a number of them. I have never lost money on one in the 3 decades I've been in the biz. But that's not to say that it's that way with newbies or the average lay person without any knowledge or experience.

The thing that rang my bell @Virginia Jones was your comment about the prevalence of renters. If your in a heavily rental community and there happens to be a lot of MH's in them it could be a reasonable investment. But you definitely have to do your homework.

If the park communities are not in the path of progress but instead in a blighted or run down area where there's not much sign of future upward mobility (pun intended) then you need to be very careful if not simply stay away from them. Those are the ones that can get an investor in trouble for a variety of reasons.

However, if the MHP is in the path of progress and well maintained for the most part it could very well be a suitable investment. How do you know if the MHC is in the path of progress? You have to do your due diligence. You need to develop a history of the park, acquire local demographics, study the vacancy history if available, ask lots of questions, go to the building jurisdiction that regulated the particular MHC you're interested in, etc. 

I fortunately live in the North San Diego Coastal community of Leucadia and I can tell you that what @Ronald Bourgeois has shared with you is certainly not a fit for this area. There are MH's that sell anywhere from 100k to over a million depending on the park and the location i.e. Malibu, Newport Beach, North San Diego Coastal, etc.