All Forum Posts by: John Arendsen

You make a lot of very astute and valid points @Bill Gulley. There's an age ole adage in the MH Biz. "God always seems to put MHP's in the direct path of hurricanes, floods, tornadoes and earthquakes". I'd say fires but then they don't care what path their in they manage to get there way with almost everything.

Additionally, it can be confusing for many whence distinguishing between a HUD Manufactured Home and a Modular as many go down the same assembly lines. However, you can crane lift or roll a well built MOD onto a poured in place stem wall and footing and anchor it with stitch welded steel plates that hold as well or better than traditional anchor bolts.

To take it a step further as a Silvercrest Dealer for over 20 years we did many two story HUD MH's that had to be installed the same way. You would never have known the difference when they were all finished.

Depends on how high you want to go @Ronald Bourgeois. Don't know bout you but living high comes with its costs. LOL!

Doncha just love America @Bill Gulley where we can think and believe what we want? It's great to have the freedom to think and say whatever we want to believe and I certainly have no problem with that in any way.

I'm not sure how many MH factories you've ever toured but I can tell you beyond the shadow of a doubt the the basic kiln dried and straight sticks they use are far better than the wet, heavy and wrapped load they drop off on your job site. I've done a lot of both and I can tell you for a fact that the quality of materials used in a factory has site built beat hands down.

As for the general construction and assembly please show me the jigs and rigs on a job site. In all the decades I've been building site built and installing MH's I don't even think a carpenter even knows how to spell the word jig.

Now I will give you this. There are still factories that use the cheap 3/16 inch photo finished veneer paneling instead of dry wall and there are factories that will use traditional 2x4 exterior wall studs and farming components. But those factories won't get any of my  biz. That I can tell you.

Additionally, several factories continue to use cheap plastic hoses for plumbing lines instead of copper and the cheapest turn stops, fixtures, fittings, commodes, sinks, appliances, formica countertops, plastic wrap around shower enclosures, and on and on. But you get what you pay for.

I see affordable housing site built that take the same short cuts. In fact if you could put wheels and axles on them and tow em down the road then by your definition they'd be "TRAILERS" as well. Right?

If the factory isn't using, 5/16 or 3/4 inch plywood or at least CDX, 2x6 exterior wall construction, double pained tinted and rated windows, porcelain fixtures, granite or marble countertops, stainless steel fixtures, copper plumbing and upscale accessories they don't and will never git my biz. 

But bottom line they can and do build any home as good or much better than any old "WOBBLY BOX" going down the road. I've been in too may factories to count. In fact I even worked in one of Golden West's very first factories when they were built like trailers and looked like old mobile homes or coaches.

But do yourself a favor and take the time to tour a factory or two and see first had the amount of detail the assemblers put into the new state of the art HUD and MOD Factory Built Homes.

BTW, they haven't used a blue book in Cali for the past 25 years unless they're Pre HUD and have never been transferred to from the DMV to the California Department of Housing & Community Development (HCD) who now regulate and registers the manufactured homes instead of the DMV. Banks and lenders also use experienced Home appraisers and Blue Books to thoroughly appraise them at fair market value.

If they're placed on a foundation on a resident owned lot or parcel and certified by an engineer and they're permanently installed on the situs they are no longer considered "CHATTEL" and therefor run with the land in a sales transaction. Therefore they don't depreciate unless they're in a blighted or undesirable area or no longer in the path of progress. But then I see a lot of stick built properties that are suffering the same fate.

So once again my friend I would suggest that you not paint an entire industry with such a broad brush and do take the time to educate yourself. You'll be doing yourself a tremendous favor not to mention the folks you are dealing with. 

I can't tell you how many folks have literally dropped their RE professional because they simply didn't know what they were talking about and literally insulted and offended their client until they simply walked away and sought someone like me out for the opportunity to really educate them.

"Bottom line the name does not change the image, it is the image that changes the name." Bravo my friend. I couldn't have said it any better @Thomas S.

Trailer

Park Model

Still a Park Model with a Cabana and 2nd story deck

A real TRAILER PARK

A Pre HUD Singlewide Mobilehome

a HUD Singlewide Manufactured Home.

HUD Doublewide Manufactured Home (2008)

HUD Singlewide MFH

Modular with stucco siding and tile roof. Yes, they really make them and deliver, installed finish them out.

As a general and manufactured home contractor having done my share of both stick, HUD and MOD I have to agree whole heartedly with @Mike Hanneman. Not only are they jigged and rigged they also use kiln dried wood so every stick of lumber is true and straight for the most part. They are also built in an controlled environment.

But the one thing that I've found as a developer for the past few decades is the minimal amount of theft and vandalism realized with HUD or MOD installation and the very short amount of time you spend on a job site overall compared to a slow and tedious sight/stick built process.

Cities and neighbors love you when there's not a bunch of trucks filled with dozens of people showing up everyday for months on end with their loud, gruff and profanity laced conversations, jokes and laughter along with loud hip hop and or rap music blaring away all day for months on end.

About the only noise involved in the entire process is the heavy equipment used to excavate and prep the site. There are crews that do the hands on infrastructure, foundation, driveway, garage and landscaping but that's minimal by comparison to having carpenters, plumbers, electricians, painters and on and on for months.

The beauty of MOD and HUD is the quickness of the delivery, set, installation, close up and detail work which all takes place in a few days if the crew is experienced and efficient which most are nowadays.

@Rami W. First and foremost I'm not the one to ask about the valuation on MHC's. I would suggest you reach out to http://www.rishel.net on that. In answer to your question "What are the best types of manufactured homes? hud? Modular? Steel frames?" It depends on the situation. I'm not that familiar with Steel Frames. But if you're going to be investing or developing on private (resident owned) lots/parcels then I would recommend MOD's over HUD MH's in almost every instant. 

Why? You will find financing MOD's much more friendly over HUD homes due to appraisals and comps unless you're in a predominantly HUD MH environment i.e. an area where HUD MH's exist equal to or more than traditional site (stick) built homes.

That stated, however, there's very little if any difference in the way they are built. In fact many if not most manufacturers use the same assembly lines for either or so you'll generally find little difference between the two other than one is built on a steel "Mainframe Chasis" and delivered to the site behind a "Totter"  while the other is built without the steel mainframe and delivered to the site on a low boy then craned or rolled onto a poured in place stem wall foundation and footing.

Personally and from decades of experience there are some educational programs that are worthwhile. But if you really want to hit the ground running in '17 as you say then I wouldn't waste a lot of time with programs. If you have $$$ to invest I'd find out who the most successful and reputable stakeholders in your area are and see if you can invest with them as long as they would be willing to mentor you as well. Nothing like jumping in with all fours when you want to hit the ground running.

You're spot on about Coastal Cali. @Bill Neves. At least on the North San Diego, Orange County, Malibu, Oxnard, Ventura, Santa Barbara County Coastline. As a lifetime RE investor of both site (stick) built and MH's I can tell you first hand that I've never lost $$$ on MH's in these areas and I own and will continue to buy and sell them until I graduate to that big MHC in the sky (God willing).

Buying on the cheap may sound good to a lot of folks but in the big picture it doesn't always turn out so good. Everything is relative and real estate as the ole saying goes is "LOCAL". So what is cheap to one investor may sound ridiculously expensive to another not acclimated to relative costs and values in a given geographical and socio-economic demographic.

I'll buy beaters 3 blocks away from the waters edge for 100k all day long. I'll then either remodel them or pull them out and put a new one in; A two story if permitted. Or I will design and build a hybrid, part Manufactured and part site built, depending on the size of the lot, set backs, local building jurisdictions, etc.

If I can work with the MHC owner/managers I will then rent/lease them out or sell them for 195-500+-k depending on the park, site or proximity to the coast or other attractive amenities. 

"Tiny Houses" Finally Have A Clear Path of Acceptance?"

But here it is fresh off the press. This will be a boon to the Tiny House and Manufactured Home Industry. I will keep you informed and up to date as I receive more information.

In the meantime please feel free to contact me anytime for additional information about how to proceed with the purchase and installation of an Accessory Dwelling Unit (ADU).

STATE OF CALIFORNIA - BUSINESS, CONSUMER SERVICES AND HOUSING AGENCY EDMUND G. BROWN JR., Governor

DEPARTMENT OF HOUSING AND COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT

DIVISION OF CODES AND STANDARDS

STATE HOUSING LAW PROGRAM

November 9, 2016

INFORMATION BULLETIN (2016-06) (SHL)

TO: Local Governing Bodies

Local Code Enforcement Agencies

Factory-Built Housing Manufacturers

Interested Parties

State Agencies and Departments

FROM: Richard Weinert, Deputy Director

Division of Codes and Standards

SUBJECT: 2016 California Residential Code (CRC) – Change to dwelling unit requirements for minimum floor area, and current rulemaking cycle proposal to repeal efficiency dwelling unit requirements from the 2016 CRC

The purpose of this Information Bulletin (IB) is to notify local governing bodies, code enforcement agencies, and factory-built housing manufacturers of changes to the 2015 International Residential Code (IRC) which were adopted into the 2016 California Residential Code (CRC) and will take effect on January 1, 2017, which will allow for design and construction of dwellings considerably smaller than efficiency dwelling units.

Section R304.1 of the 2013 CRC, based on the 2012 IRC, requires all newly constructed one- and two-family dwellings and townhouses not more than 3 stories above grade to have “…at least one habitable room that shall have not less than

120 square feet (11m2) of gross floor area.” The 120 square feet requirement was removed from Section R304.1 of the 2015 IRC and will not be carried forward as a requirement in the 2016 CRC. This change to the model code will allow smaller

dwelling units to be designed and constructed using the 2016 CRC. Specifically, the new language provides for the new minimum area requirement of habitable rooms to have a floor area of not less than 70 square feet (6.5m²).

In accordance with the 2016 CRC, a dwelling unit could be sized to accommodate a habitable room(s) with a minimum of 70 square feet; contain a bathroom including water closet, lavatory and bathtub or shower; and a kitchen area with a sink. Habitable rooms, not including the kitchen, are required to have a minimum horizontal dimension of 7 feet. Bathrooms, toilet rooms, closets, halls, storage or utility spaces and similar areas are not considered habitable rooms.

In an effort to avoid the potential for confusion between the scope and application of the California Building Code (CBC) and the CRC, the Department of Housing and Community Development (HCD) intends to repeal existing California amendments (specifically, the definition of “efficiency dwelling unit” located in Chapter 2 and Section R304.5 of the 2016 CRC) during the current 2016 Intervening Code Adoption Cycle with an effective date of July 1, 2018. It is HCD’s opinion that the provisions of the CRC should not mandate a larger dwelling unit (i.e., efficiency dwelling unit) than the 2015 IRC requires. HCD requests that local enforcing agencies share this IB with all interested or affected parties. In the interim HCD does not intend for local governing bodies or code enforcement agencies to enforce the provisions of CRC Section R304.5 or CBC Section 1208.4 on detached single-family dwellings or “tiny homes” built on a foundation pursuant to the CRC. In all other respects, these dwelling units shall conform to the minimum prescriptive requirements for residential dwelling units.

Repealing the CRC definition of “efficiency dwelling unit” and Section R304.5 will not impact the minimum prescriptive requirements of efficiency dwelling units as applied to buildings regulated pursuant to the building code, as set forth in Section 1208.4 of the 2016 CBC.

If you have any questions regarding this Information Bulletin, please contact the

@Ken Rishel adds a little more frosting to the cake as he usually does. But I think you're realizing a consensus on this thread.