Agent is “wholesaling” property on MLS

[William C.]

Wow, this one is a doozy. In all of my 10 years I have never seen anything like it.

Friday a client of mine discovered a property for sale that he has had his eye on for almost 4 years. Back then, it was listed for $300k as a short sale, and to be honest it may have worked for him at that price, although it wasn't worth it for him to go through the short sale process, only to be denied because he wanted to come in with a lowball number. Nevertheless, here we are 4 years later and it has finally run the foreclosure course and hit the market. I tried to get the lockbox code through our centralized showing system, but oddly I was directed to contact the agent. This is uncommon, but happens from time to time, so I called the agent, no answer, and then texted her. A minute later she responded with the LB code. I thanked her for the quick response, and told her my client will likely be interested so I asked her to give me a call when she had a chance. It's now listed at $225k. We spent, almost 2 hours touring the building, taking notes, discussing repairs, discussing the renovation plan etc etc. When we finished I immediately called the agent as they wanted to put an offer in. No answer. I sent another text letting her know my intentions in hopes she'd get back to me. When I got back to the office I pulled the property up on the MLS for the first time and everything appeared to be normal. At this point the only oddity we had noticed was that when it was listed on Zillow about 45 days ago at $150k, there was a price increase to $225k about 20 days later. Uncommon again, but Iv seen it before. As I start digging into the MLS and public records I find another MLS listing for the same property. In fact there were 3 total, the one from 4 years ago, the one listed for sale now, and a mysterious 3rd that was saying PENDING. My heart sunk into my stomach as I hate to find Pending listings on good opportunities, so I open it up and look around. First thing I notice is it's a carbon copy of the Active listing. The second thing I noticed was, my MLS shows the information for listing agents, and when properties go Pending or sold, they lost the buyers side agent information. I noticed the "Buyers" agent was the same agent as the "listing" agent on the New Active listing. Res flags and warning bells are going off now. I start lining up the dates. 4 days after the first listing goes Pending, the new listing is created. The seller is Hubzu, if anyone has any experience working with them, 100% chance that they do not close a deal in 4 days from execution of agreement. From this point I contact the original listing agent and inform her of what I found. Luckily she responds late on a Friday, but simply says that agent shouldn't be listing the property like that, and that she'd look into it Monday. At this point I'm pretty sure Iv solved the case. My guess is they are "wholesaling" this property, but what blew my mind was that they actually had the audacity to list it on the MLS. I sent a few more texts to the "new sellers" agent but was not able to get any answers. Later that night at 10pm I finally get a response. She replies, "it is for sale.... my partner is flipping the house....that is what you see a pending sale". Hmm. I reply "so they do actually own it then?" She replies Yes. I say that's weird, they should update the MLS, blah blah blah, and then she stops responding. Realizing what's happening I send a message to her saying my client is getting a little concerned with the shady ness of the deal, and that he's only willing to pay $150k, let me know if they'll accept that, otherwise we are just moving on." No answer. The next day I decide to research her brokerage, and broker of record. The office listed on the MLS doesn't exist. The broker of records cell phone number begins with (555). I was able to track down an 800 number that connected me to someone at charge in the office and I explained I had an interested buyer, couldn't get ahold of the agent to get answer and a seller disclosure which is required in my state, etc. He asked my to Text the address and agent info to him. He is a lot more responsive, although he isn't giving me any actual information. I continue to downplay my buyers interest, because at this point I'm going way far out of my way to track down this info, and I don't want to tip them off how interested my buyer is in this property, Incase they do not actually own it, and realize it's value and follow through with the sale. Finally, the broker or office manager responds to my text messages telling me " my buyer should probably move on to any property". I keep it cordial and inform him we kind of just want to get the story at this point, and he repsonds with "again, move on". So at this point I'm sure he got the story, and realized I'm on the them. What I'm not 100% sure of at this point is whether they actually settled or not. I'm praying that they have not, and that I can cut in and stop their attempt to flip the paper on this thing for $75k. I contact a title company because in this county they e-file title so the new owner would be recorded immediately. The title company informs me that the bank still owns the property. That's pretty much where we are now. What do I do? I NEED to stop their sale if it's still under contract. They are obviously intending on flipping it without making any repairs. My buyer intends on actually renovating and renting it out, and making the neighborhood a better place, faster, and not trying to make a quick buck. I'll admit we both dropped the ball not seeing the original listing 45 days ago. We have had our attention in 3 other deals and simply didn't have the time or resources to take on anymore. I know it's illegal to market properties on my MLS if your not the owner, my fear is that I can't stop their sale. Is the fact that attempted to flip it without owning it enough for the bank to cancel the contract with them? I am extremely scared of them actually closing on this deal, first of all it'll cost my buyer more money with zero benefit, but also now that I have basically pestered them the past 2 days, I'm afraid they either won't sell to us, or will just stand firm on a ridiculous price. Iv kept all of my communication professional, and like I said I have not indicated he'd be willing to pay much more than they paid, but if they had half a brain they'd be able to realize how high his interest is from how much we've been trying to get some answers. Anyone deal with this before? Any advice? Hoping to connect with the banks agent first thing tomorrow and lay out the facts, get them to cancel and slide in. I have a feeling it won't be that easy. All you "wholesalers" who see nothing wrong here need not reply, I don't need a debate about how many laws were broken here. To be clear, they were selling the house, not the contract. Looking forward to hearing what you veterans think.

[Jay Hinrichs]

Originally posted by @Josh C.:

I get your upset, but perceptions change depending on which side of the transaction you are on. Had you been telling us you wholesaled in this exact manner and made 75k you’d be the BP hero of the week.

One of the podcasts was from a more experienced wholesaler saying he puts all of his on the MLS prior to him closing. If the agents can and do close and it's a deal at 225k I know it stings, but seems like they profited on an opportunity. Like we all try to do.

They didn’t lie to the bank saying it’s only worth 150 did they? The bank has brains. I’d take much more offense if the seller was a 85 year old widow like I see everyday. The uneducated sellers it what bothers me. Not big banks.

big brother banks taking loss's like this does filter down to effecting everyone in the industry. 

[Troy Rizan]

As an agent myself, that would hack me off. I would first go to the MLS board and try and get the listing pulled as it is not a place for flippers that do not have title.

[William C.]

Originally posted by @John Clark:

"What do I do? I NEED to stop their sale if it's still under contract."

-------------------------------

Now you know why I hold real estate agents in contempt.

 LOL.  okay dude. thanks for the input.  Agent or not, I expect people to act in good faith and be honest, and truthful.  Iv admitted Im biased.  Iv admitted Im emotional.  Iv admitted I could see the scammers ending up with the property in the end.   I have also admitted my buyer does not have the right to the property, I feel it should be relisted, or backup offers reviewed.  If my buyer loses, fair and square, so be it.   I have every right to try to stop what is wrong in this world, more specifically the industry I chose to work in.   

Thankfully it appears the actual listing agent representing the seller feels the right thing should be done as well, and is working to cancel the contract.  Evil does not always have to prevail.

[Michael Ealy]

Originally posted by @William C.:

Originally posted by @John Clark:

"What do I do? I NEED to stop their sale if it's still under contract."

-------------------------------

Now you know why I hold real estate agents in contempt.

 LOL.  okay dude. thanks for the input.  Agent or not, I expect people to act in good faith and be honest, and truthful.  Iv admitted Im biased.  Iv admitted Im emotional.  Iv admitted I could see the scammers ending up with the property in the end.   I have also admitted my buyer does not have the right to the property, I feel it should be relisted, or backup offers reviewed.  If my buyer loses, fair and square, so be it.   I have every right to try to stop what is wrong in this world, more specifically the industry I chose to work in.   

Thankfully it appears the actual listing agent representing the seller feels the right thing should be done as well, and is working to cancel the contract.  Evil does not always have to prevail.

This is an example of how NOT to wholesale a deal. Thanks for sharing this William.

I sometimes buy properties from wholesalers but rarely do I buy a wholesale deal that is also listed on the MLS. I utilize wholesalers with OFF-Market properties.

[Mike Cumbie]

I may be missing something here (Wouldn't be the first time)

But to me it sounds like:

1) They won a bid for $150,000 that you and your client (or anyone else)  did not bid on. 

2) Before closing they threw it on the MLS for $225,000

3) You busted them on it and they have pulled the listing (Fair enough) and are going to require them to actually purchase it before listing. Which makes sense.

What follows is where I am confused.

Why does their sale with HUBZU have to stop and now end up going to you and your client for a number you prefer over their bid? Do we know if they can perform or are we guessing they do not have the money? Could it be a cash buyer won the bid and just figured they would assign it over if they got what they want, if not they would close? While I will fully agree that until it closed they should not be listing on the MLS, that hardly seems like cause to stop their sale and award your clients a price of their choosing. How do we know that they do not have another offer for 155K, 172K, 184K, 203K, 214K from someone who is willing to take the assignment or doubleclose it.

I know your guy wants to get it at a "steal" of a price and you guys are slamming them for listing it on the MLS before closing (which they should not have), But if this is an ethical fight over right and wrong shouldn't it be put back on the open market for everyone to take a stab at instead of just awarding your guy it for a great price?

[William C.]

Originally posted by @Josh C.:

I get your upset, but perceptions change depending on which side of the transaction you are on. Had you been telling us you wholesaled in this exact manner and made 75k you’d be the BP hero of the week.

One of the podcasts was from a more experienced wholesaler saying he puts all of his on the MLS prior to him closing. If the agents can and do close and it's a deal at 225k I know it stings, but seems like they profited on an opportunity. Like we all try to do.

They didn’t lie to the bank saying it’s only worth 150 did they? The bank has brains. I’d take much more offense if the seller was a 85 year old widow like I see everyday. The uneducated sellers it what bothers me. Not big banks.

 I would never rip a seller off and collect $75k of their equity at the table, having done no improvements to a property.  I know for a fact homes sell for more money when more people know about them, not some "wholesalers" cash buyer list.  So your example falls on deaf ears.  I am the anti wholesaler, and anti cash buyer.  We offer sellers who need cash, a cash offer,  but we also offer them a partnership deal in the fix and flip, where they are the beneficiary when the home sells for 120% of market value.  I'm not out to make a quick buck, which is why I am able to sleep at night knowing I am doing the right thing. If they NEED to have the cash that day, no questions asked, so be it, we'll give them the cash.  We make ALL of their options clear to them, and make sure they know how each one will affect them. 

I would also not be in this thread has this buyer simply closed on the property, and THEN relisted it. End of story. They copy and pasted the banks pictures and MLS listing, word for word, 4 days after it went Pending. There is a right way, and a wrong way to do things. Just because others think ripping people off to steal $75k, and consider them the BP hero of the week, doesn't mean I have to agree with it. In fact Id argue BP needs to be held more accountable for the misinformation they allow. I understand its a forum, anyone can say anything. But on Podcasts where wholesalers are featured, they could probably do a better job of clarifying legal and illegal. It's not too hard to step back and ask yourself if what you are doing is fair to all parties involved. Wholesalers hate me, and they should. its clear by some of the responses. I love it to be honest. Just like late night infomercials of no money down investing have become American culture, I pledge to educate the entire world of the scam artists so they cease to exist. Lofty goals I admit. But I have a feeling as the Truth begins to spread, more and more outlets will be willing to listen to my story, and how people can avoid being taken advantage of.

If they have the sellers blessing to market, good for them, have at it champ. Not the case here.  Nor in a lot of cases. So your talking apples im talking oranges.  A quick search on BP will bring back countless results of "newbies" asking for ways to keep the sale price a secret to the seller in a wholesale deal.  That just makes me LOL, then want to puke.

Let me repeat myself.  By all means, PURCHASE a property, then remarket for a profit all you want.  But to lie about ownership, play games and refer to equitable interest, bring zero dollars to the table in a double close, act like it was a newbie mistake when you were licensed for 5 years.....All these fraudulent practices will be brought to the light.   

[William C.]

Originally posted by @Mike Cumbie:

I may be missing something here (Wouldn't be the first time)

But to me it sounds like:

1) They won a bid for $150,000 that you and your client (or anyone else)  did not bid on. 

2) Before closing they threw it on the MLS for $225,000

3) You busted them on it and they have pulled the listing (Fair enough) and are going to require them to actually purchase it before listing. Which makes sense.

What follows is where I am confused.

Why does their sale with HUBZU have to stop and now end up going to you and your client for a number you prefer over their bid? Do we know if they can perform or are we guessing they do not have the money? Could it be a cash buyer won the bid and just figured they would assign it over if they got what they want, if not they would close? While I will fully agree that until it closed they should not be listing on the MLS, that hardly seems like cause to stop their sale and award your clients a price of their choosing. How do we know that they do not have another offer for 155K, 172K, 184K, 203K, 214K from someone who is willing to take the assignment or doubleclose it.

I know your guy wants to get it at a "steal" of a price and you guys are slamming them for listing it on the MLS before closing (which they should not have), But if this is an ethical fight over right and wrong shouldn't it be put back on the open market for everyone to take a stab at instead of just awarding your guy it for a great price?

 Your close, except you missed the part about the agent/buyer misrepresenting that why were in fact, the owner, and not a party under contract to purchase the property.  You may have also missed the breach of contract between buyer and seller when they gave access to us to view the property as an end buyer.  Or also when they breached the contract by either attempting to, or actually assigning the contract, which this seller explicitly forbids.

I see your point.  I may seem like a hot headed disgruntled agent that is upset we didn't win the original auction.  And that may all be true.  Fact is, they marketed the property, as their own.  Illegal.  When I called them on it, they lied even more.  When they were told by their broker they could not do such a thing, she still engages in negotiations on a property, she does not own.  All illegal.  And thankfully the real sellers agent agrees, and is cancelling the contract.  I will be the first to admit had they not ever relisted the property, my buyer would not have realized this thing was listed and sold....until they chose to market it as the rightful owners.  So my frustration and disgust is out the clear fraud and deceit by the agent/buyer.  Play by the rules, that's all I ask.  

And Yes I agree 100%, the seller should and will hopefully cancel the contract, and go to back up offers, or relist the property, and award it to the highest bidder, whether that be my buyer or not.  I will also be the first to admit my buyer does not have any right to the property at this point.   

[William C.]

Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:

I got tired of the is this legal is this not.. also the equitable interest theory.

this is the reply I got from the state.. this was a wholesaler sending out a flyer just like you would make

picture of property description etc etc.   So you can see this stuff can be state specific and its up to the public

and real estate agents to notify the state..    For me I could care less I will never buy from a wholesaler directly

I just wanted to know.. Why I have licenses and pay my dues and do my education when others can just mimic being an 

agent and dont have to be licensed.. why have a real estate industry at all.. either we play by the same rule book or 

bunch the whole department of real estate and licensing etc etc.    Right ?

"Hello Jay,

Thank you for getting back to me. The advertising copy you attached to your email came out perfectly and will be very helpful. Thanks!

The Agency is well aware that unlicensed “wholesalers” are rampant in our jurisdiction. Addressing the problems is like trying to put out small individual fires in a forest that is burning. The Agency’s investigations are complaint driven, so we rely heavily on the public, and our licensees to bring these individuals to our attention.

Thank you again for the information, if I have further questions for you during the investigation I will certainly reach out.

Best regards,

Frances Hlawatsch | Financial Investigator

State of Oregon - Real Estate Agency

530 Center Street NE, Suite 100, Salem, OR 97301"

 Jay, I hear you loud and clear.  Unfortunately I have empathy for the boards in each state as they really don't have the time, resources, or even the slightest idea of how to battle such a blaze.   It's gotta be a fight from within.  Guys like you and me, and the other honest agent and investors in this thread.   My fight going forward will not be with individual scammers one by one.  It will just be a country wide, world wide, social media/mass media educational public service announcement, one blog post, facebook update, Twitter update, instagram photo, youtube video at a time.  Millions of Americans watch good morning america, I see 3 minutes stories on there all the time about warning consumers about the bad apples.   Maybe your pretty face will end up there telling all the good people what to watch out for?  It'll be a grassroots effort, but it can be done.   Id be willing to bet if you were to ask 10 Americans if they have ever heard of "buying real estate with no money down"  or more generally the late night infomercials of getting rich in real estate by 7am the next morning, that at least 7 of them would say yes.    The good news is, when a message is intended to HELP the masses, and not just a small few of hucksters trying to make a quick buck, sharing, and liking, and re-posting all over social media can spread the good word pretty fast.  And you know what, if it takes me 10 years, Ill be happy with that too.  As more and more learn about the scam artists out there, they'll have to turn to the few honest operators that are left standing.

[Steve K.]

@William C. If you manage to get the contract cancelled, be prepared for this wholesaler to record a memo and cloud title just to mess with you/whoever ends up going under contract next. Then they may extort you for a payoff in order to remove the memo and clear title. Chess is all about anticipating the opponents next three moves. Unfortunately even if the actual seller cancels this contract the wholesaler may not give the deal up without putting up a fight. 

[William C.]

Originally posted by @Steve K.:

@William C. If you manage to get the contract cancelled, be prepared for this wholesaler to record a memo and cloud title just to mess with you/whoever ends up going under contract next. Then they may extort you for a payoff in order to remove the memo and clear title. Chess is all about anticipating the opponents next three moves. Unfortunately even if the actual seller cancels this contract the wholesaler may not give the deal up without putting up a fight. 

 I appreciate the insight.   I'll have to google a memo, I have never heard of such a thing.  

[Steve K.]

 Search on here for “Notice of Contract/ Memorandom of Purchase Agreement”, it’s how wholesalers cloud title when a seller backs out or another wholesaler is snaking their deal. Basically lays a land mine for the next buyer and screws the seller if they try to sell to somebody else. Totally unscrupulous and grounds for being sued but seems like that’s the type of people you’re dealing with. I only know about it from a recent thread on here. The seller had his attorney send a demand for the wholesaler to release the contract. 

[Pratik P.]

I think you need to relax and take a deep breath. 

First off this isn't wholesaling. This is an unethical agent. They shouldn't have listed the property on the MLS. What they should have done is just buy it and re-list after recording since it seems to be such a sweet deal. It doesn't matter if they want to do no work, some work, whatever. Point is, they should have just bought and re-listed.

I think you should have complained to the board and MLS and also put in a back up offer. But hiring an attorney to stop their sale, etc? Kinda overkill

[Pratik P.]

Originally posted by @Steve K.:

 Search on here for “Notice of Contract/ Memorandom of Purchase Agreement”, it’s how wholesalers cloud title when a seller backs out or another wholesaler is snaking their deal. Basically lays a land mine for the next buyer and screws the seller if they try to sell to somebody else. Totally unscrupulous and grounds for being sued but seems like that’s the type of people you’re dealing with. I only know about it from a recent thread on here. The seller had his attorney send a demand for the wholesaler to release the contract. 

 I know what post your talking about and that was definitely scammy and unethical. But you should know that clouding title is justified when the buyer is willing and ready to close but the seller backs out because they simply changed their mind. Both parties are expected to execute the contract which was agreed upon. Although I wouldn't record a memorandom of Purchase agreement or whatever. It would be a lis pendens.

[William C.]

Originally posted by @Pratik P.:

Originally posted by @Steve K.:

 Search on here for “Notice of Contract/ Memorandom of Purchase Agreement”, it’s how wholesalers cloud title when a seller backs out or another wholesaler is snaking their deal. Basically lays a land mine for the next buyer and screws the seller if they try to sell to somebody else. Totally unscrupulous and grounds for being sued but seems like that’s the type of people you’re dealing with. I only know about it from a recent thread on here. The seller had his attorney send a demand for the wholesaler to release the contract. 

 I know what post your talking about and that was definitely scammy and unethical. But you should know that clouding title is justified when the buyer is willing and ready to close but the seller backs out because they simply changed their mind. Both parties are expected to execute the contract which was agreed upon. Although I wouldn't record a memorandom of Purchase agreement or whatever. It would be a lis pendens.

What if buyer is in breach of contract?  Twice?  Did they not give me access to property by providing the LB combo as their own?  Did they not attempt to assign the contract?   I didn't even include the paragraph that basically says seller can cancel for ANY reason they see fit, and buyer cannot.  They do that so they can never be on the hook.  Im happy to have the conversation.  You all may be right.  Im banking on them just letting it go as they have clearly messed up.

[William C.]

Originally posted by @Pratik P.:

I think you need to relax and take a deep breath. 

First off this isn't wholesaling. This is an unethical agent. They shouldn't have listed the property on the MLS. What they should have done is just buy it and re-list after recording since it seems to be such a sweet deal. It doesn't matter if they want to do no work, some work, whatever. Point is, they should have just bought and re-listed.

I think you should have complained to the board and MLS and also put in a back up offer. But hiring an attorney to stop their sale, etc? Kinda overkill

I agree with you. You have not read all my posts, and I don't blame you. Iv stated all of the things that you just did. No attorneys will ever get invloved from my end. I have taken a deep breath, Im prepared to see the sale happen, even though the real listing agent has stated she is cancelling the contract and moving to back up offers or relisting. I appreciate the input. I will be going to the MLS and the board as soon as I have the deal under contract for my buyer. Or as soon as its clear they will not be cancelling the contract.

[Jay Hinrichs]

Originally posted by @Steve K.:

@William C. If you manage to get the contract cancelled, be prepared for this wholesaler to record a memo and cloud title just to mess with you/whoever ends up going under contract next. Then they may extort you for a payoff in order to remove the memo and clear title. Chess is all about anticipating the opponents next three moves. Unfortunately even if the actual seller cancels this contract the wholesaler may not give the deal up without putting up a fight. 

 probably wont happen in this case.. I cant see a realtor doing that there is huge liablity and the seller being a bank could pound them into dust..  I get it with that other thread.. simple non sophisticated seller did not know better slimy wholesaler sneaks that in.. just keeps giving those that wholesale like this the rep they deserve which is slimballs  LOL

[Jay Hinrichs]

Originally posted by @William C.:

Originally posted by @Steve K.:

@William C. If you manage to get the contract cancelled, be prepared for this wholesaler to record a memo and cloud title just to mess with you/whoever ends up going under contract next. Then they may extort you for a payoff in order to remove the memo and clear title. Chess is all about anticipating the opponents next three moves. Unfortunately even if the actual seller cancels this contract the wholesaler may not give the deal up without putting up a fight. 

 I appreciate the insight.   I'll have to google a memo, I have never heard of such a thing.  

yes those are common but in most states the document to be recorded needs to be notarized.. so I dont think the bank is going to sign and notarize this in fact i would be surprised if the boiler plate in their contracts specifically deals with this issue and does not allow anything to be recorded.. but good to bring up how these ya hoos are screwing innocent sellers.

[Jay Hinrichs]

Originally posted by @Pratik P.:

Originally posted by @Steve K.:

 Search on here for “Notice of Contract/ Memorandom of Purchase Agreement”, it’s how wholesalers cloud title when a seller backs out or another wholesaler is snaking their deal. Basically lays a land mine for the next buyer and screws the seller if they try to sell to somebody else. Totally unscrupulous and grounds for being sued but seems like that’s the type of people you’re dealing with. I only know about it from a recent thread on here. The seller had his attorney send a demand for the wholesaler to release the contract. 

 I know what post your talking about and that was definitely scammy and unethical. But you should know that clouding title is justified when the buyer is willing and ready to close but the seller backs out because they simply changed their mind. Both parties are expected to execute the contract which was agreed upon. Although I wouldn't record a memorandom of Purchase agreement or whatever. It would be a lis pendens.

yes there is a mechanism for that and its call a specific performance suit.. I did one last year and well it took over 2 years..I had to put 100% of the cash price of the property into escrow on the contract close date.. and leave it there and this was right at 150k in cash.. plus spent another 20k in legal..  So when you actually figure out how U prosecute those.. most cant do it.. they don't have the stones for it or the wherewithal .. If you don't put the money into escrow on the close date then the contract dies..   its a nice thought that you can just file a lis pendance but that wont do it by itself.

[Jay Hinrichs]

William i know your on a crusade with this.. and I for one try to protect our industry and agree that unlicensed wholesaling and fraud in the inducement IE you say U are a cash buyer but you really are not..  I dont like those either think its bush league and the states should jump in.

However there are a few real estate brokerages that do this exact thing its their business model.. they started in Texas one is called net worth realty. and the other is well cant recall.. but thats what they do they tie up MLS and then try to get assignment fee's.. or whatever with no real intention of closing on it..

[William C.]

I agree with @Jay Hinrichs.  Better chance of them buying the home, than it being cancelled and they cloud title.  As I mentioned before, the bank has redundant language in their boiler plate that prevent buyers from doing this.   If anyone has ever dealt with these banks before and have seen these agreements, they give themselves 100 outs and give the buyers zero.  Just the way it goes when you buy a foreclosure.  Turns out it might be our saving grace here.  

[Josh C.]

@William C. And @Jay Hinrichs

I’m not a wholesaler. I’ve been pretty open about how I feel about wholesalers that take advantage of uneducated sellers that are low income or elderly or both.

That being said I think you mentioned this was listed on the MLS. Open market. Yes they marketed it too early, but they still bought in open market.

I once bought something for 140k I know they paid 80k for just one year prior. 35k for something bought for 6k. And others. I cringed a bit, but still paid as it was a good deal for me. I too said they added no value. But that didn’t matter. Market value is market value.

Heck one of our skyscrapers here in Indy was flipped for 30MM more than purchased in just 2 years.

Not defending anyone, I just don’t see the big issue with making money in the open market. Yes some things weren’t handled right, but they still bought and sold in open market.

Just wanted to clear up what I said. I’ll bow out now.

[Pratik P.]

Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:

Originally posted by @Pratik P.:

Originally posted by @Steve K.:

 Search on here for “Notice of Contract/ Memorandom of Purchase Agreement”, it’s how wholesalers cloud title when a seller backs out or another wholesaler is snaking their deal. Basically lays a land mine for the next buyer and screws the seller if they try to sell to somebody else. Totally unscrupulous and grounds for being sued but seems like that’s the type of people you’re dealing with. I only know about it from a recent thread on here. The seller had his attorney send a demand for the wholesaler to release the contract. 

 I know what post your talking about and that was definitely scammy and unethical. But you should know that clouding title is justified when the buyer is willing and ready to close but the seller backs out because they simply changed their mind. Both parties are expected to execute the contract which was agreed upon. Although I wouldn't record a memorandom of Purchase agreement or whatever. It would be a lis pendens.

yes there is a mechanism for that and its call a specific performance suit.. I did one last year and well it took over 2 years..I had to put 100% of the cash price of the property into escrow on the contract close date.. and leave it there and this was right at 150k in cash.. plus spent another 20k in legal..  So when you actually figure out how U prosecute those.. most cant do it.. they don't have the stones for it or the wherewithal .. If you don't put the money into escrow on the close date then the contract dies..   its a nice thought that you can just file a lis pendance but that wont do it by itself.

 Jay that's exactly what I was talking about... A specific performance suit. I had this talk with my attorney and understand that it's not easy or quick. But if we're talking about a very profitable deal, I'd spend the money to fight it. Also, I'd think it would encourage the seller to work something out with me instead of just walk away with a clouded title and lawsuit. 

[Greg H.]

I have been very anti-wholesaler as well on BP over the years. In 30 years, I have never even considered making an offer nor would on a property with one. 

My only experience with wholesalers marketing a foreclosure is thru HUD and they basically give them a slap on the wrist by just saying stop

Not knowing who the seller is, my best guess is that nothing will happen regarding canceling the contract as there is just to much bureaucracy involved. The agent has no power at all. In fact with most auction property, they are often the last people that knows what it going on

Putting all fact aside that I believe the agent/wholesaler is totally in the wrong, I would be pressuring them to take the $30,000 profit by telling them what I knew about the transaction and what I was prepared to do. That is if my client truly wanted the property.  I would definitely be holding my nose the whole time

[Greg H.]

Originally posted by @Pratik P.:

Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:

Originally posted by @Pratik P.:

Originally posted by @Steve K.:

 Search on here for “Notice of Contract/ Memorandom of Purchase Agreement”, it’s how wholesalers cloud title when a seller backs out or another wholesaler is snaking their deal. Basically lays a land mine for the next buyer and screws the seller if they try to sell to somebody else. Totally unscrupulous and grounds for being sued but seems like that’s the type of people you’re dealing with. I only know about it from a recent thread on here. The seller had his attorney send a demand for the wholesaler to release the contract. 

 I know what post your talking about and that was definitely scammy and unethical. But you should know that clouding title is justified when the buyer is willing and ready to close but the seller backs out because they simply changed their mind. Both parties are expected to execute the contract which was agreed upon. Although I wouldn't record a memorandom of Purchase agreement or whatever. It would be a lis pendens.

yes there is a mechanism for that and its call a specific performance suit.. I did one last year and well it took over 2 years..I had to put 100% of the cash price of the property into escrow on the contract close date.. and leave it there and this was right at 150k in cash.. plus spent another 20k in legal..  So when you actually figure out how U prosecute those.. most cant do it.. they don't have the stones for it or the wherewithal .. If you don't put the money into escrow on the close date then the contract dies..   its a nice thought that you can just file a lis pendance but that wont do it by itself.

 Jay that's exactly what I was talking about... A specific performance suit. I had this talk with my attorney and understand that it's not easy or quick. But if we're talking about a very profitable deal, I'd spend the money to fight it. Also, I'd think it would encourage the seller to work something out with me instead of just walk away with a clouded title and lawsuit. 

 Who are you going to sue at this point?  His client was not injured as he was not the high bidder at the time

Yes the agent acted inappropriately. However, the seller received and accepted an offer that was acceptable. 

Nobody has been “injured “ to warrant a lawsuit 

[Pratik P.]

Originally posted by @Greg H.:

Originally posted by @Pratik P.:

Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:

Originally posted by @Pratik P.:

Originally posted by @Steve K.:

 Search on here for “Notice of Contract/ Memorandom of Purchase Agreement”, it’s how wholesalers cloud title when a seller backs out or another wholesaler is snaking their deal. Basically lays a land mine for the next buyer and screws the seller if they try to sell to somebody else. Totally unscrupulous and grounds for being sued but seems like that’s the type of people you’re dealing with. I only know about it from a recent thread on here. The seller had his attorney send a demand for the wholesaler to release the contract. 

 I know what post your talking about and that was definitely scammy and unethical. But you should know that clouding title is justified when the buyer is willing and ready to close but the seller backs out because they simply changed their mind. Both parties are expected to execute the contract which was agreed upon. Although I wouldn't record a memorandom of Purchase agreement or whatever. It would be a lis pendens.

yes there is a mechanism for that and its call a specific performance suit.. I did one last year and well it took over 2 years..I had to put 100% of the cash price of the property into escrow on the contract close date.. and leave it there and this was right at 150k in cash.. plus spent another 20k in legal..  So when you actually figure out how U prosecute those.. most cant do it.. they don't have the stones for it or the wherewithal .. If you don't put the money into escrow on the close date then the contract dies..   its a nice thought that you can just file a lis pendance but that wont do it by itself.

 Jay that's exactly what I was talking about... A specific performance suit. I had this talk with my attorney and understand that it's not easy or quick. But if we're talking about a very profitable deal, I'd spend the money to fight it. Also, I'd think it would encourage the seller to work something out with me instead of just walk away with a clouded title and lawsuit. 

 Who are you going to sue at this point?  His client was not injured as he was not the high bidder at the time

Yes the agent acted inappropriately. However, the seller received and accepted an offer that was acceptable. 

Nobody has been “injured “ to warrant a lawsuit 

 Greg I assume you're not talking to me.. 

But I 100% agree with you