People are fleeing California, are you?

311 Replies

Originally posted by @Vinay H. :
Originally posted by @Matt R.:

 IDK jack about Spain but I don't think it is the West Coast port for goods and birthplace for ideas/inventions for the rest of Western Europe. 

If California is now the birthplace of civilization, then I guess it is immune to the things that happened to those insignificant places like Tokyo, Barcelona, London and Sydney.

California is great again - no doubt. The question is - is it too Great for the middle class....?

Yeah, IDK the more recent REI history of those other cities but my guess is they are all very expensive still and will remain expensive. Affordability in many parts of CA is getting tougher for middle class. It depends on where still, it is a pretty big state to generalize RE values as one place. It is really many many dozens of places in terms of values. There was a gentleman from Westlake Village who chimed in. Last time I checked the household income for Westlake Village was around 180k. You can expect that zip code to have more going for it than average regardless of immigration, taxes, etc is my guess.

Just outside LA proper but mostly in LA County...Westlake Village, CA do you think this will be less expensive in 5, 10, 15 years? Forgettaboutit brother. 

I was born in San Francisco and, save for a 4 year stint at school, have lived here all my life.  We are actively looking at selling everything and moving out.  The city I was born in was a military town and most civilized.  Not anymore.  Downtown and in many neighborhoods you have to dodge tent cities, aggressive bums demanding money and watch out for the poop and infected needles littering the streets.

  Last week someone busted out a neighbor's car window for no reason and a neighbor reported that some bum has been sleeping by our bushes. 

  Thanks to the state laws, it's hard just to stand in line at a store just to buy something, as shoplifters push you aside to escape with their loot!  Yes, it happened to me.  Nobody chases them, because it's essentially no longer a crime to steal less than $950.  

We now have new gas taxes, with HUGE new taxes on the way, a higher vehicle tax and a new water use limit of 55 gallons per person per day.  The sales tax is being extended to services.  

If we vote an airhead for Governor and fail to repeal the gas taxes, this state will be sinking and we will be hitting the lifeboats to another state.

Originally posted by @Bill Cereske :

I was born in San Francisco and, save for a 4 year stint at school, have lived here all my life.  We are actively looking at selling everything and moving out.  The city I was born in was a military town and most civilized.  Not anymore.  Downtown and in many neighborhoods you have to dodge tent cities, aggressive bums demanding money and watch out for the poop and infected needles littering the streets.

  Last week someone busted out a neighbor's car window for no reason and a neighbor reported that some bum has been sleeping by our bushes. 

  Thanks to the state laws, it's hard just to stand in line at a store just to buy something, as shoplifters push you aside to escape with their loot!  Yes, it happened to me.  Nobody chases them, because it's essentially no longer a crime to steal less than $950.  

We now have new gas taxes, with HUGE new taxes on the way, a higher vehicle tax and a new water use limit of 55 gallons per person per day.  The sales tax is being extended to services.  

If we vote an airhead for Governor and fail to repeal the gas taxes, this state will be sinking and we will be hitting the lifeboats to another state.

From what I hear SF is a whole other animal politically speaking. But it is a very small geographical location, compacted into a few square miles compared to LA County hundreds of squared miles. I do know of folks who moved up there and into some of the more upscale suburbs and they all seem very happy so far. Of course they have LA quads that pay them six figures cash flow so they have that REI factor going on.

In my experience  it isn't just the lower income people leaving.
  • Do you live in California? Yes
  • Have you lived in California in the past 5 years? Came here when I was 2 - 48 years ago.
  • If so, where? Orange County 
  • Will you be staying or leaving? Leaving eventually.
  • Why? Too many stupid laws, too much homelessness, nobody speaks English here anymore, and I'm tired of the traffic! 1 hr commute each way to work and even on the weekends the freeways are frustratingly horrible.
  • What is your full time income producing job? Programmer.

P.s. I know someone is going to call me racist because I think people should speak English in America, but it's  not racism, it's  frustration due to terrible service since the non-English speaker and myself can't communicate together.

Originally posted by @Dennis Rootes :

In my experience  it isn't just the lower income people leaving.

  • Do you live in California? Yes
  • Have you lived in California in the past 5 years? Came here when I was 2 - 48 years ago.
  • If so, where? Orange County 
  • Will you be staying or leaving? Leaving eventually.
  • Why? Too many stupid laws, too much homelessness, nobody speaks English here anymore, and I'm tired of the traffic! 1 hr commute each way to work and even on the weekends the freeways are frustratingly horrible.
  • What is your full time income producing job? Programmer.

P.s. I know someone is going to call me racist because I think people should speak English in America, but it's  not racism, it's  frustration due to terrible service since the non-English speaker and myself can't communicate together.

I hear ya, I took 3 years Spanish in high school and 3 more years in college and still don't know much Spanish. What I can say, is the Spanish speakers I come across are some of the nicest and most family oriented hardest working good spirited peeps around. 

Originally posted by @Matt R. :
Originally posted by @Dennis Rootes:

In my experience  it isn't just the lower income people leaving.

  • Do you live in California? Yes
  • Have you lived in California in the past 5 years? Came here when I was 2 - 48 years ago.
  • If so, where? Orange County 
  • Will you be staying or leaving? Leaving eventually.
  • Why? Too many stupid laws, too much homelessness, nobody speaks English here anymore, and I'm tired of the traffic! 1 hr commute each way to work and even on the weekends the freeways are frustratingly horrible.
  • What is your full time income producing job? Programmer.

P.s. I know someone is going to call me racist because I think people should speak English in America, but it's  not racism, it's  frustration due to terrible service since the non-English speaker and myself can't communicate together.

I hear ya, I took 3 years Spanish in high school and 3 more years in college and still don't know much Spanish. What I can say, is the Spanish speakers I come across are some of the nicest and most family oriented hardest working good spirited peeps around. 

 Hey Matt, I agree the people are good people. I just wish we could understand each other.  :)  I was getting gas the other night and tried to tell the clerk that the sticker they put on to show it hadn't been tampered with, had been tampered with. She could not understand a word I was saying. She didn't speak Spanish either unfortunately or I might have been able to use my high school spanish....

We are not moving out of state but moving to a different part of the state.  Somewhere in the central valley but plan to commute to the pay area to work, at least for a few years to build up the portfolio!  Together my girlfriend and I both make 6 figure incomes, and it makes sense to move to a place which is more affordable to live, and invest, and make good w2 income in the bay. Just my 2 cents.

Originally posted by @Brett Hearn :

We are not moving out of state but moving to a different part of the state.  Somewhere in the central valley but plan to commute to the pay area to work, at least for a few years to build up the portfolio!  Together my girlfriend and I both make 6 figure incomes, and it makes sense to move to a place which is more affordable to live, and invest, and make good w2 income in the bay. Just my 2 cents.

This is a good CA point. You can find any alternative to the SF high prices and or better fitted to most REI goals in CA. Think of Cali as a seperate country with 40 million population. There are all REI circumstances for investors typically and all under one roof STATE sort of speak. No, we do not have many thousands of sub 80K properties, but there are 1000s of sub 250K properties that hard working peeps in Calif will gladly buy/rent today. It is all the same as anywhere else really and perhaps add a zero here and there is all the actual difference. THE BIG DIFFERENCE IS IF ANY IS PROP 13. Prop 13 allows one to pass to heirs with 1970s tax liabilities in place. Some look for this we can understand.

@Matt R.  The problem isn't just the knuckleheads running San Francisco, it's the airheads running the State.  The 12 cent new gas tax, the $100 vehicle registration fee rise and the coming 67 cent "climate change" gas tax is coming to get you, no matter if you live in San Francisco or Eureka.  It is still a minor misdemeanor - no jail time - to steal something worth less than $950.  The cops don't even bother to show up to write a ticket.    The illegal gang bangers are given sanctuary here and we have dead bodies to show for it.  It doesn't matter if you are in South LA, Compton or South Lake Tahoe - the criminals know that are untouchable.   

Soon, you will be limited to indoor water use of 55 gallons per day, but there are exceptions for your swimming pool and outdoor gardens.  Sales Tax may soon be extended to services.  

With all of this, California is swimming with a $9 BILLION surplus.  The state recently opened new bank accounts, in order to circumvent a law that requires them to lower taxes when the state is drowning in money, like now.

I don't think my State Representatives are representing ME.  But they seem to be representing the vagrants, who are all registered to vote when they do "outreach" and are driven to the polls.  No, I'm not kidding:  It's called the political "machine", or more accurately, the "Burton Political Machine".

Originally posted by @Bill Cereske :

@Matt R.  The problem isn't just the knuckleheads running San Francisco, it's the airheads running the State.  The 12 cent new gas tax, the $100 vehicle registration fee rise and the coming 67 cent "climate change" gas tax is coming to get you, no matter if you live in San Francisco or Eureka.  It is still a minor misdemeanor - no jail time - to steal something worth less than $950.  The cops don't even bother to show up to write a ticket.    The illegal gang bangers are given sanctuary here and we have dead bodies to show for it.  It doesn't matter if you are in South LA, Compton or South Lake Tahoe - the criminals know that are untouchable.   

Soon, you will be limited to indoor water use of 55 gallons per day, but there are exceptions for your swimming pool and outdoor gardens.  Sales Tax may soon be extended to services.  

With all of this, California is swimming with a $9 BILLION surplus.  The state recently opened new bank accounts, in order to circumvent a law that requires them to lower taxes when the state is drowning in money, like now.

I don't think my State Representatives are representing ME.  But they seem to be representing the vagrants, who are all registered to vote when they do "outreach" and are driven to the polls.  No, I'm not kidding:  It's called the political "machine", or more accurately, the "Burton Political Machine".

 It is really redic. I pay more taxes to more entities than most can imagine. Hopefully this will change one day or not IDK. But the amount of money I make as a small business and the amount of taxes I pay, I agree this is a total tax friggen rip off. Here is the catch, where else can 20 million drive by my business location? These absurd taxes piss me off either way. Believe me, I keep looking, but they got me by the gonads currently. It is not like Disneyland is going to relocate. This may ebb and flow a bit, when shiat hits the fan but IDK. As far as RE prop taxes, it is still very low compared so there is that half to consider. 

  • Do you live in California?  Yes, for another week.
  • Have you lived in California in the past 5 years?  I've lived in CA since 2005
  • If so, where? I live in the Bay Area
  • Will you be staying or leaving?  Leaving. 
  • Why?  We bought our house in 2012 at 500k, and just sold it for 1M.  Both my husband and I are teachers and living in CA was a stretch for us with middle income jobs.  I'm going to miss the ocean and the weather, but the opportunity was too good for us to pass up.  With the proceeds from our sale, we're hoping to start investing in real estate and move closer to financial independence.  We are also moving to be closer to my husband's family who will help us with our two small children and mitigate expensive childcare costs.   

Many people have posted here that only the poor are leaving, but it's the middle class who are leaving as well.  I don't know how wealthy Bay Area are going to find qualified, quality teachers when they have all moved away because they don't earn enough money.  Good luck, CA!  We will be back to visit, but we're done with California.    

  • What is your full time income producing job? Teacher
Originally posted by @Dennis Rootes :

In my experience  it isn't just the lower income people leaving.

  • Do you live in California? Yes
  • Have you lived in California in the past 5 years? Came here when I was 2 - 48 years ago.
  • If so, where? Orange County 
  • Will you be staying or leaving? Leaving eventually.
  • Why? Too many stupid laws, too much homelessness, nobody speaks English here anymore, and I'm tired of the traffic! 1 hr commute each way to work and even on the weekends the freeways are frustratingly horrible.
  • What is your full time income producing job? Programmer.

P.s. I know someone is going to call me racist because I think people should speak English in America, but it's  not racism, it's  frustration due to terrible service since the non-English speaker and myself can't communicate together.

  • Do you live in California? Yes
  • Have you lived in California in the past 5 years? Yes (since 1989).
  • If so, where? South orange County
  • Will you be staying or leaving? Not leaving yet, but see the danger Of Proposition 13 on commercial property being killed and vast number of jobs lost, or the radical Newsom winning the election and getting away with doubling income taxes (Venezula was a wealthy place with oil a few short years ago, now they have problems getting food and toilet paper, so don't think an economic collapse can not happen)   
  • Why? The best weather in the USA, company in its 27th year with good clients 
  • What is your full time income producing job? I own an environmental consulting corporation and am a real estate investor (currently selling all of rental houses in seven states - taking profits, and see a cycle peak and downturn coming) 

For the sake of prespective. 

I recently visited some low tax, high crime parts of the Midwest. 3 different states. Awful public schools, potholes unlike anything I've seen even on my travels anywhere in Latin America and $25 in highway tolls in the span of an hour and a half. 

Different strokes. Different folks. 

I love California. 

Diversity only in CA?  I discovered Korean spa-saunas last year and quite enjoy them.  Even though LA has a large Korea Town, you will find the largest such facilities in other states, such at the two giant and super-fancy facilities in Dallas. 

It is sad to see the lousy roads, terrible schools (30% more per-student funding, adjusted for inflation, than in the 1970s when prop. 13 passed) and so forth in California.

A proposition to split California into three states will be on the ballot in November.  I'd give it a 50% chance of passing.  Of course, who knows how the Supreme Court would rule, but if it passes by a substantial margin, it seems unlikely that the will of the people will be ignored.         

@Bill Cereske Most people have no idea what it's like in some areas of California since the redefining of crime. They've reduced felonies to misdemeanors so that it appears the crime rate is down. Violent crimes are no longer prosecuted except in the most extreme cases. Counties and cities no longer can fund jail space. Homeless are living in culverts, canyons, on the streets, taking over vacant space, etc. In Redding, CA the drug addicts shooting up heroin in the parks was so bad rather than arrest them, they removed the playground equipment, and the public libraries in many towns are overrun with sexual predators using the computers. Car theft is now considered a civil matter and a police report isn't even taken, and as you mentioned, thieves can openly walk out the door of stores with shopping carts filled with goods up to $950 and they're not even arrested.  As beautiful as California is, until something is done to get the homelessness, open drug use, and crime under control, it won't matter. 

Originally posted by @Roxie Kim :
  • . I own several properties in Los Angeles (they are all riding the Jamison Properties wave! Thank you Dr. Lee!)..,

 Jamison is a good client of my company, and it is fun to see the success they are enjoying.  That will stop if they kill Prop. 13 for commercial real estate.   

Originally posted by @Stephen Masek :
Originally posted by @Roxie Kim:
  • . I own several properties in Los Angeles (they are all riding the Jamison Properties wave! Thank you Dr. Lee!)..,

 Jamison is a good client of my company, and it is fun to see the success they are enjoying.  That will stop if they kill Prop. 13 for commercial real estate.   

 Been hearing a lot about the big developments they have going on in L.A lately. Sounds like they started focused more in office buildings and have been moving into residential , makes a lot of sense with the housing shortage in L.A 

@Stephen Masek The ballot measure will be interesting for sure. However; I don't think they would ever let it actually happen. There's the matter of dividing up the spoils, they'd never come to an agreement. Besides, I don' t think northern California really wants San Francisco. 

Originally posted by @Matt R. :
Originally posted by @Brett Hearn:

We are not moving out of state but moving to a different part of the state.  Somewhere in the central valley but plan to commute to the pay area to work, at least for a few years to build up the portfolio!  Together my girlfriend and I both make 6 figure incomes, and it makes sense to move to a place which is more affordable to live, and invest, and make good w2 income in the bay. Just my 2 cents.

This is a good CA point. You can find any alternative to the SF high prices and or better fitted to most REI goals in CA. Think of Cali as a seperate country with 40 million population. There are all REI circumstances for investors typically and all under one roof STATE sort of speak. No, we do not have many thousands of sub 80K properties, but there are 1000s of sub 250K properties that hard working peeps in Calif will gladly buy/rent today. It is all the same as anywhere else really and perhaps add a zero here and there is all the actual difference. THE BIG DIFFERENCE IS IF ANY IS PROP 13. Prop 13 allows one to pass to heirs with 1970s tax liabilities in place. Some look for this we can understand.

 Somehow, a 38% federal tax and 13% state tax are not appealing, both for W-2 and Schedule E income. There are just as nice or nicer nature spots through the U.S. without the traffic and high taxes.

I personally think Hawaii's weather trump's CA's left front and center.

California's surf breaks are too small and not enough, whereas Hawaii is world class.

I also don't want to drive 45 minutes to go to a hike with a decent view, when I can drive 5 minutes in Hawaii.

Also, I personally enjoy travel to Asia (easier from HI) than Europe (easier from CA), and not by a small margin.

Way more upsides and way less homeless people in Hawaii (than what the posters in this thread described about LA and SF).

I can walk 4 minutes to the beach with surfboard in hand in many parts of Oahu. In CA, how many people can do this? < 0.0000001% probably (not scientific).

YMMV :D

Several of you mentioned other countries.  Rima and I recently enjoyed three weeks in Italy and Lithuania.  California is infested with vast numbers of bums, but we saw zero, yes zero, in Vilnius, the Capital of Lithuania, and just three drunks at the train station in Rome and one guy with a tent near a castle.   Lithuania is clean, green and safe, but cars are 33% more expensive than in the USA, and clothing in Italy and Rome is far more expensive than in California.    

  • Do you live in California? Yes
  • Have you lived in California in the past 5 years? Yes (since 2000).
  • If so, where? Silicon Valley (south SF Bay Area) 2000-2009, Sacramento 2009-now
  • Will you be staying or leaving? leaving when my current golden handcuffs are off
  • Why?  I'm no longer willing to pay a premium for weather and government corruption. Taxes and prices are too high for my single-earning family with kids. Most of the tech companies worship infantilizing their workers, and make family-unfriendly policies in favor of young, dumb, new graduates and also dog-owners. State governance is fully captured by crony capitalists and special interests leading to higher taxes and fees for no added services and massive unfunded future liabilities. High homeless and no good solutions. High crime and no good solutions. Diversity doesn't only exist in CA. Annoying "California uber alles!" citizens.
  • What is your full time income producing job?  Tech writer 

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