1100 electric heat bill for tenants what besides use could be wrong and what can we do ?
Just got a call from a tenant parent and the January electric heat bill was $1100. In past years the highest it went was $800. The heat is all electric baseboard with one room with under floor heating on slab and one with an electric wall mount toward the ceiling The electric company got an 12% increase but really this is more then that and the cost is over the top. I do have propane fireplace that we could hook up for them which most years was more expensive. What besides use can cause this? Given the huge difference and the fact that these guys are relatively responsible otherwise I am wondering if there could be something wrong and if so what it could be. There are thermostats in just about every room so we will advise them again about cranking them up and down over short time period but I am looking for other possibilities. Could something be going wrong in one of the baseboards that could contribute to this?
Originally posted by @Sam Leon:... I am not seeing how two breakers with two joined handles would be more energy efficient then two without.
Sam, it is possible for one breaker to trip independently of the other, thus supplying a lower voltage to the system. That is where the potential for poor performance stems from. Two pole breakers exist so that both trip together even when overload is only on one of the legs.
Nothing. Someone decided to turn the heat up to a point that it never turned off. Don't believe the hype
All electric heat is already 100% efficient - there is no such thing as "higher efficiency electric heat".
stephen
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Originally posted by @Colleen F.:
@Jeremy Tillotson We have looked into insulation and updated but what gets us is the difference this year. It is 1.5 to 2 times the previous years. They always complain about electric heat but this year it even shocked me. The insulation is unchanged and the windows and doors are mostly < 5 years old. They could be setting the thermostat up but I think not. I am wondering if there is any baseboard or thermostat issue that could be causing this.
I am looking into more efficient electric heat.
If we swapped out a baseboard or two for something different I am considering if it would help. For heat cost the students are often unrealistic and I have explain how electric heat cost is your regular bill plus the cost of heat but this cost is just way high. The last time it was really high was the girl from Phoenix who was setting thing at 75 and that was not this high.
Originally posted by @Stephen S.:
All electric heat is already 100% efficient - there is no such thing as "higher efficiency electric heat".
stephen
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Stephen:
While I know where you are coming from - the resistance that converts electricity into heat in an electric resistance heating is fully efficient - there are electric-fired methods of heating which are more cost effective (electric thermal storage units, electric heat pumps) and more efficient in the sense of the amount of heat energy produced per amount of electricity consumed (heat pumps).
Roy,
OK; RESISTANCE electric heat is already 100% efficient. How about that? <g>
To me that's the only "electric heat" there is. And no matter the exact method of conversion you still get the same 3.41 BTU's per watt. But, as you say; a new heat pump can exceed a 4 COP - even air cooled. All things considered; defrost, backup heat, location, and so forth a heat pump will tend to cost about 1/2 to 1/3 as much as straight resistance heat. 1/2 is probably more realistic in real life. Of course the biggest challenge is always to get people to pick a temperature they like and then never again touch the thermostat. Setting the temperature down always increases the operating costs - but getting that through people's heads is generally impossible. <g>
What is an 'electric thermal storage unit'? And how is it more than 100% efficient?
stephen
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Originally posted by @Roy N.:
Originally posted by @Stephen S.:All electric heat is already 100% efficient - there is no such thing as "higher efficiency electric heat".
stephen
------------------Stephen:
While I know where you are coming from - the resistance that converts electricity into heat in an electric resistance heating is fully efficient - there are electric-fired methods of heating which are more cost effective (electric thermal storage units, electric heat pumps) and more efficient in the sense of the amount of heat energy produced per amount of electricity consumed (heat pumps).
Originally posted by @Stephen S.:
What is an 'electric thermal storage unit'? And how is it more than 100% efficient?
stephen
Stephen:
An electric thermal storage unit is not more than 100% efficient. I said it was/can be more cost effective than straight resistance heating.
An electric thermal storage unit is basically a resistance heating unit coupled with a thermal mass and an intelligent controller. Think of it as a baseboard loaded full of high-density bricks with a computer control. The simplest controllers are simply timers which allow you to program the heater to consume electricity during off-peak house (at lower rates) to heat the thermal mass. The more sophisticated ones communicate with the utility to allow for both off-peak consumption and the ability for the utility to manage load levels.
Once charged, heat is then released into the room from the thermal mass during peak hours ... with minimal electric consumption to maintain the rate of discharge of the thermal mass above a given threshold.
We don't have any "off peak" rates here anymore. At least not for residential and small commercial customers
Colleen,
I live in the south, was doing an upgrade on my HVAC unit. Talked to 8 different contractors. Some wanted to just do a swap out. others weren't interested in "bidding anything". Finally an older gentleman, cam in and asked me what I was wanting. Told him I was looking for energy savings. My unit was old and out of production. He told me the "bid unit" was not the most efficient the the next upgrade would be more efficient. He did an audit on my house. his suggestions was to starting on the roof with a ridge vent. "lets the heat out in the summer" (we get very hot in the south during summer). second to blow cellulose insulation in my attic up to 12 inches. (we blew 14). pre-existing was 6 inches of batting. third thing was to add 7 more soffit vents, to allow more flow in the attic. fourth was to re-caulk the windows and add storm windows to my single pane windows. fifth was to upgrade the HVAC unit to his suggestion. I told him I was going to close in the carport and make another bedroom. he upgraded it by 1/2 ton. (told me it wouldn't be as efficient until I actually closed it in.) All the upgrades ran me about $7500. I followed every direction he gave me. the unit was a natural gas fired heat with a electric ac unit.
The results were a immediate 50% reduction in my utility's bills. before was 300 to 350. after was 120 to 150 month. (house is approximately 2000 sq ft ). Even the gas company came and swapped out my meter. I finally got the gas company rep to admit to me that's why they changed my meter and valve. Thought I had done something to it. LOL. Told him what I had done and he said that explains it. That house is now one of the rentals. Renters stay an average of 3 to 4 years.
By the way I'm slowly renovating the 3000 sq. ft. two story place I live in now to saving money, everything's done except the new HVAC unit. current one is butane fired and electric ac That's happening this fall. New double hung, double pane windows was this years project. led lighting, attic insulation blown in, water heater upgrade, I'm averaging the $200 to 250 range now. Cant wait to see what the new energy efficient unit will do.
everything you can do to stop drafts. and insulate will help with the energy bills.
Rod