Bill introduced to shield unpaid federal workers from Landlords!

181 Replies

@Mike M.      and to the rest of you who are opposed to those with experience sharing their feelings. Hyperbolic thinking is how a majority of our decisions are made. Then we back them with "facts" to further support our personal biases. 

I WAS a federal employee who WAS NOT PAID the last time they furloughed people. I was INJURED ON THE JOB and because I was no longer available for emergency work I was forced to use sick time and vacation to keep a paycheck coming. For me, I was lucky that I banked time. I never got my time back. I was not an investor. I lost the time I had saved to stay home when my first daughter was born. 

I am tell those of you out there who are looking for more than opinion, but experience. My experience has me concerned. My connections are saying 'THERE IS NO END IN SIGHT". You can't base what HAS happened on what WILL happen.

It's never gone on this long. Both parties are begging to temporarily open the gov't to maker a few moves so it can function. It hasn't happened before, everything that happens next is thus, unprecedented. 

For those of you who like facts tho, Americans employed:

Fed gov 2.7M

Walmart 2.2M

McDonalds 420K

feel free to learn the rest below

https://ipfs.io/ipfs/QmXoypizjW3WknFiJnKLwHCnL72ve...

To those calling people idiots on here because you don't like what you hear. I'm sorry. This business isn't about the number of units you own, flip, how many courses you've sold to unsuspecting newbies...none of it. It's how you treat risk. That's this business. Good luck out there. This is just my lifelong experience and knowledge. Take it or leave it. There are PLENTY of people who should be making moves and plans and DO NOT WAIT. Its better to over prepare than to tell people like myself and others  who have THRIVED in a bad market. 

There is no space for **** talking on here. 

Originally posted by @Joe Splitrock :

I received comments questioning my claim that federal employees will receive back pay. Please be aware that the house and senate have already passed a bill that states working and furloughed employees will receive back pay. The president is expected to sign this bill:

S. 24 Government Employee Fair Treatment Act of 2019

"Each employee of the United States Government or of a District of Columbia public employer furloughed as a result of a covered lapse in appropriations shall be paid for the period of the lapse in appropriations, and each excepted employee who is required to perform work during a covered lapse in appropriations shall be paid for such work, at the employee's standard rate of pay, at the earliest date possible after the lapse in appropriations ends, regardless of scheduled pay dates."

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/116/s24

Again, just to be clear this is not a proposed bill like the subject of this thread. It is a bill that has passed the house and senate and is waiting on the president to sign, with commitment he will sign it. I am confident you will all get your money.

 Maybe you weren't aware of this: from AmericanThinker

"In only five more days (25 days and counting, as of today), a heretofore obscure threshold will be reached, enabling permanent layoffs of bureaucrats furloughed 30 days or more."

"A reduction in force is a thoughtful and systematic elimination of positions. For all practical purposes, a government RIF is the same thing as a layoff. ..." "When agencies furlough employees for more than 30 calendar days or 22 discontinuous work days, they must use RIF procedures. An employee can be terminated or moved into an available position[.]"
Perhaps you've missed Mr. Trump's most famous rallying cry: "You're FIRED!" It's now "You're FURLOUGHED"then Riffed. He takes it seriously. And contrary to what people may think, he's not so dumb. This one is very well played.

Another point, many federal employees were vets. It's very difficult to get hired into positions with the fed gov if you were not. So, those Fed employees you don't have compassion for were in Iraq, Kuwait, and other war time missions. They are incentivized to stay on as a fed employee. So, stop talking about them like they are garbage. They serve you! 

That doesn't make them overpaid, lazy, and all the things I have heard them called or alluded to on this thread. 

This shutdown effects all the private companies who have contracts w the government. They have employees. They go out to eat, watch netfix, spend money...

If you listen to what I'm saying nad you take a long look at your business and make some tweaks to make it resilient and nothing comes of it? Great, you have a stronger business for it. You completely ignore me and tell me to pound sand...you can give yourself a name.

You hear what I'm saying, tighten up your business, and the sky does fall? Then I'm the smartest person in the world. I'm hoping you all create COOP (continuity of operations plans). The government has enacted them...emergency personal only report to work. No new projects funded. They aren't paying their bills and the president has threatened the use of declaring a National State of Emergency to force the wall to be built. Then he doesn't need congress.

I care about you guys. Get your business battle ready. Pretend like its 2006 and you know what's next. I'm not saying sell it all. Just, don't think everything is fine and ok because flippers, wholesalers, and turn key providers need the calm to continue. 

@Meghan McCallum , I am currently a Federal Employee by day, who's agency (DoD) has not been furloughed. The last furlough I went through in 2013, I was at a different agency and I have never received back pay for the time we were furloughed. 

While my current tenants are not feds, I'm still thankful that I am prepared to still pay my mortgage regardless. 

@Mike M. , do you really think they are going to RIF the TSA folks? They are already woefully understaffed....maybe it;ll be like when they fired all of those air traffic controllers? 

@Meghan McCallum I think one of the best ways to address a situation, or for that matter a crisis, is to say "what can I do to mitigate this." Your options may be limited- but you may have options.

Also, please realize that there are people who are so imbued with partisan thinking they are incapable of rational discussions.

I would also suggest staying away from the cable news, I hope you would have listened to that "marketplace" I recommended. 

As a federal employee I am extremely concerned with the shutdown, but I can only control what I can control. Best of luck.

Yes, I'm familiar with RIFs. All of this. I was a fed employee. I got all my information from the CFR, not The American Thinker. 

A little fear here should be good for all of us.

Originally posted by @Patrick M. :

@Derrick E. what happens to the federal worker is the near term damage. If the shutdown were to stretch on, as you hope, the long term damage will begin to affect the welfare states that have a heavy reliance on federal dollars (the other states/ major cities tax dollars) like West Virginia, Kentucky, etc. It will also affect the private sector, and is beginning to.

I think the important thing is to not see this in terms of ideology- but big picture.

Well first of all, I never said I hope that the shutdown were to continue. I said I would be fine if it does. Big difference.

Second of all, as for WV and KY being a welfare state. Well get the Federal Government out of the way, allow us to use our natural resources and we will no longer be a welfare state. 

@Aninze A. I was DoD. I was furloughed in 2013. They could RIF TSA as they are really just security theater. Air traffic controllers are protected like firefighters and military. Did they do a hiring freeze for your department yet?

@Patrick M. I haven't watched the news in over two years. Cable in 4. My information comes from the experience of being inside emergency management and preparedness within the capital. My fiscal insight comes from friends inside wall street. 

I'm not worried about my company, nor my tenants not paying. I'm worried about the new guys who haven't been taught what to do when trouble hits. This is a great time to have that conversation and pause from the incessant push to grow big, fast, and right out the gate. 

@Meghan McCallum , yes, we have been in a freeze since the new FY (October). Had a quite a few retire so we are feeling the pain with unfilled positions in an already high turnover field (contracting). Definitely no shortage of contracts to award!

@Meghan McCallum Your compassion for others is commendable. 

But I was speaking directly to your earlier post:

"You guys. I apologize of someone else posted this earlier but...THIS IS A PROBLEM. I look at it this way. Everyday the gov't is shutdown it adds 1% greater chance that will create a drastic shift in our economy! The US government is our largest employer. This is going to effect us all. It will be the memberships people canx or default on.

I'm very uncomfortable in our position as an American let alone an investor. This may be a great wealth grab. I'm very spooked."

Quite frankly, myself, I am more concerned over the paycheck to paycheck employees who are not real estate investors. As RE investors we should be actively spending a good deal of time assessing and minimizing our risk. It is our obligation to ourselves and our families. Therefore- I must say- I am not really worried for the real estate investor who thought every day would be sunny, or worse case scenario, there would be a passing shower.

Originally posted by @Thomas S. :

I have had numerous bouts throughout my life when I have been without pay for months. I never expected any one to feel sorry for me and never accepted handouts.

Military, federal worker, sanitary engineer, doctor, electrician, they are all the same to me and I treat them all the same. It makes no defiance why any individual can not pay their bills. I also have bills, I run a business and am not a welfare office. Sure I will cut them a break but it would not be acceptable for them to tell me they have NO rent money for me. They dam well better have something for me if they have money for anything else. What makes it worse is that it is their choice to live pay check to pay check and expect us to undersand and be compasionate. Sorry no compassion for stupidity.

They know they are not getting paid it is their responsibility to find ways to make ends meet. They need to borrow money from friends and family, sell something or find other ways to survive. The problem I see is these people will likely withhold all rent to pay for other less important items because they know they can. I am not stupid.

You come off a little harsh, but I agree with you. The issue is not the government not paying them, it is them living paycheck to paycheck.  

Originally posted by @Brandon L. :
Originally posted by @Thomas S.:

I have had numerous bouts throughout my life when I have been without pay for months. I never expected any one to feel sorry for me and never accepted handouts.

Military, federal worker, sanitary engineer, doctor, electrician, they are all the same to me and I treat them all the same. It makes no defiance why any individual can not pay their bills. I also have bills, I run a business and am not a welfare office. Sure I will cut them a break but it would not be acceptable for them to tell me they have NO rent money for me. They dam well better have something for me if they have money for anything else. What makes it worse is that it is their choice to live pay check to pay check and expect us to undersand and be compasionate. Sorry no compassion for stupidity.

They know they are not getting paid it is their responsibility to find ways to make ends meet. They need to borrow money from friends and family, sell something or find other ways to survive. The problem I see is these people will likely withhold all rent to pay for other less important items because they know they can. I am not stupid.

You come off a little harsh, but I agree with you. The issue is not the government not paying them, it is them living paycheck to paycheck.  

Thomas is straight business all the time. I don't always agree with him, but I sometimes wish I could turn off my emotions when it comes to business decisions. He does a great job of that. 

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There’s so much hypocrisy in this thread. A lot of BP members I previously respected sharing some disappointing, and surprisingly, vitriolic opinions. There’s also a lot of ignorance and many extreme generalizations being spewed out. Other BP members have gained even more of my respect. The government employees I know are extremely hard working. I know of many who have sacrificed their lives in YOUR service...attempting to arrest extremely violent criminals. But hey, it’s good to know where people stand.

Ok, so lets keep it real. Those of us that are landlords do this as a business and not as charity.That is what churches and Non Profits are for. When I applied for my loans I had to provide proof of 6 months reserves on each property. I am able to weather the storm for 6 months. When the tenants put in a rental application, they had to show that they made 2.5 times the rent. Even with expenses, they should be able to save save 6 or 7 months of rent in case of loss of income. They signed the lease obligating them to the terms. How can the government come along and void that contract? Talk about overreaching.

Everyone knows that most federal employees make good money. Whether they work hard or not isn't the point. They get paid handsomely. If many cases much higher than in the private sector and with additional benefits. If you don't agree with that then you are naive. If you add that income on top of military retirement, and you have a goldmine. There is no reason why a federal employee should be living paycheck to paycheck. Now they are trying to pass laws so there is no risk in working for the Federal Government.

I have many friends that are Federal Employees or contractors, and they spend their money on cars and international travel. They told me they still have enough funds saved up to sustain them for however long the Government is shutdown.

We don't give our low income tenants too much rope with late payments. Why should we extend that rope longer to tenants in the upper class income level. Those of us who have been in the business for a while know that when the money starts coming back in, paying rent will be the last thing on the tenants list. The car note, light bill, and cable bill all come first.

This is not about morals or doing anybody wrong. This is strictly business. If you have a mindset of someone who can't manage their funds, then I will treat you as such. And maybe you will be ready for the next Government shutdown in 4 years.

That is all!!

@Justin K. The IRS has this thing called currently non collectible if you become unemployed... They also often do penalty abatement for taxpayers that have a history of paying timely.

Originally posted by @Ryan E. :

There’s so much hypocrisy in this thread. A lot of BP members I previously respected sharing some disappointing, and surprisingly, vitriolic opinions. There’s also a lot of ignorance and many extreme generalizations being spewed out. Other BP members have gained even more of my respect. The government employees I know are extremely hard working. I know of many who have sacrificed their lives in YOUR service...attempting to arrest extremely violent criminals. But hey, it’s good to know where people stand.

 Don't confuse military, police and safety with Housing & Urban Development, Education and EPA. They are two different worlds. Respect for the first group and a simple "yawn" for the second. ;-)

https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/government-shutdown-furloughed-mom-faces-choice-of-buying-insulin-or-making-mortgage-payment/

Right on all. I'm currently writing a letter to my ONE tenant who works for the USPS. Though, it is unlikely that I am going to see her job halted, I want to be sure my tenants know I am thinking about them. If anyone wants a copy just send me an email and I'll forward it to you for your review. 

As we can't post emails here, if you are interested in a copy please find my email in my profile.

then you can find it on my profile...

who would have ever thought that having a safe and secure home, plot of land, building or country would be something people would actually be against. This issue has caused me to change parties. I'm just gonna keep on Landlording... and gonna start voting again. 

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Originally posted by @Keith A. :

who would have ever thought that having a safe and secure home, plot of land, building or country would be something people would actually be against. This issue has caused me to change parties. I'm just gonna keep on Landlording... and gonna start voting again. 

Welcome to the right side :-)

I'm not sure what was meant by "Air Traffic Controllers are protected" I am an Air Traffic Controller that works for the government that some people here seem to dislike to an extreme amount. We have to go to work, we can not go find "other" work really without it being approved. Luckily my family has a few months reserve, however, people are all different, the pigeon hole-ing and generalizing on this topic is enlightening to the mindset of some.

     As an investor as well, I can understand how some could say that they don't want to risk their situation for someone elses, I get it, but all the extra words, the nastiness is unnecessary. 

     There are people who have had to bury loved ones and spend most of the "rainy" day money for that, people have sick children with co pays and pricey prescriptions, the new employees some who have just spent money going to school to get the "stable job" can even come to work, so having reserves for them is not an option, maybe some of you started off adulthood with a 3-6 month emergency but I doubt that the majority (or maybe your one of the lucky one with parent that have money for you to borrow), the list goes on.

     Point being no one knows everyones situation so let's relax with telling anyone how the should've done it or what they should be doing, we are in it now and the situation is the situation. To conclude no matter how much venom is flung here about our "Sorry Skillset", we will still be at work not getting paid to make sure you get home safely.

I wish everyone the best during these times.

Reality is that when this is all said and done many fed employees will have dug themselves into a very deep financial hole. When their back pay arrives don't expect it to go first to their landlord.  Many may never be able to catch up and will do a midnight run. Send a very clear message to your Fed employee tenants that in return for your understanding now you expect to be paid in full ahead of all others.

If your personal business plan is to hope to be paid then many landlords are going to learn that "hope" is nothing more than another word for delayed disappointment.

Good luck to those landlords that believe providing preferential treatment to tenants based on their chosen career is a smart business plan.  When Landlords start getting thanked for their service to the country you can consider adjusting your thinking.

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