joe crump
Does anyone have any information on Joe Crump and his courses?
Not sure of his courses as I have never purchased them. I am not bashing Joe nor his courses, however just be cautious in general. Especially in regards to technique.
Joe Crump is a soft spoken guy who charges $10K for mentoring and his courses range from $1K & up.
It is mostly based of "Subject To's" - creating passive income.
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An example of his teachings on his Youtube video & channel:
How To Buy “Subject To” The Existing Loan To Build A Huge Portfolio Of Zero Down Houses – Video 2
Joe Crump: "Okay, the hierarchy of zero down structures.The top one is buying a property subject to the existing loan. And this is when you’re buying a property, not selling it. If you’re selling a property, you’re not going to sell it subject-to. You’re only going to BUY a property subject-to. When you a buy a property subject-to, it means you are getting the deed to that property. The seller (the person who has that property right now) who has the mortgage on that property is going to sign the deed over to you or into your company’s name. And you’re going to start making payments on their loan. You’re not going to be applying for their loan. You’re not going to be qualifying for their loan. You’re not going to be responsible for their loan other than YOUR OWN MORAL RESPONSIBILITY to make sure that your seller is taken care of. So basically what happens is you’re able to take over a property without putting any cash into it, without using any credit, and you get the deed to the property. The deed is ownership of that property – that’s the sweetest position to be in as a property owner. Now, there’s lots of ways to be a principle in a transaction, but to actually be the owner of that property, to be on that deed – that’s the strongest position you can be in and it’s the hardest one for anyone to dislodge you from if ever there is a dispute in that transaction. So you want to be on that deed. And there’s lots of different ifs, ands, or buts about subject-to’s; why you should do them, what the risks are, why you shouldn't do them, what to look out for, all of those different things. I’m not going to cover those things here (I've only got a few minutes here in this video to get through all of these structures so listen to the other stuff that I teach) but having the subject-to deals – that’s the top of the hierarchy. That’s going to be your first choice to buy any property."
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Here's the bottom-line, this is much more difficult to do. Not impossible, but truly depends on your area. Joe Crump's key choice words are "moral". Why? Because we know if you are unable to find a buyer quickly for any given property (which would be Exit Strategy # 1) and you are unable to rent the property for more than what the existing mortgage is worth (Exit Strategy # 2), you will be on the hook for the payment (i.e. $1,000/M - PITI). You will then be forced to choose Exit Strategy # 3, aka "walk away"... Which in essence, IS legally okay considering you are not on the hook for the loan per-se, however by walking away you would leave the seller high and dry which could lead to bash your reputation or possible lawsuit (of course, full disclosure is required but it does not negate the possibility).
A key to all the above is DO YOUR DUE DILIGENCE of the area you are covering... How many days on the market for similar homes to sell? How much is the average rent for similar homes of the same style, size, and dimensions? Not to mention, is the subject property up to par (must consider some RENOVATIONS/UPDATES to bring home up to market/code)?
It is all about finding motivated buyers for motivated sellers and receiving $ on pre/during/post deal.
Is it doable? Of course, but need to be aware of what you are dealing with especially with sellers. Regardless if on HUD 1's, you should also learn about trusts and working in conjunction with Sub 2's.
Just my two pesos.
Big Henry
The core of his program is rent to own/lease options targeting landlords and FSBO's. It can be a lot of work and most of the above population want to sell their homes; not allow you to tie up their property for 3 years in a rent to own while you charge the "buyers" $3-10K for what is basically a glorified lease.
watched a YouTube of his "strategy", what a complete fraud. It looks to be a blend of owner finance deals and wholesaling with a huge sprinkle of good luck. He wasn't worth the 15 minutes I wasted
15 minutes of one video and you have already decided that he is a fraud ???
I understand he focuses on lease options but not really sure of how he works. I am also currently looking for some who can teach me lease options and show me how to build systems to do it in different cities.
I would appreciate if any of his direct student can share his/her experience.
-Abhijeet
@Account Closed
I tried him out and to me the reason to use him was his Automarketer and CRM. I tried to find LO buyers using the Automarketer and failed miserably. He did upgrade his websites so they are now more modern but @ $199/month to me the technology was not worth it.
I approached it as his knowledge was no better or worse than any other LO guru but the technology he offered for marketing was very attractive. It didn't work for me though. I have found that calling FSBOs and expired listings are the best way to find sellers and Facebook marketing and word of mouth are best for finding buyers. Also, although some are saying to find buyers first, you better have a RE license if you are doing that. You should have the intention/ability to close with the sellers if you are doing LOs.
Thanks @Vince Mayer for sharing your experience.
Did you work with any other coach after your experience with Joe's Product? Any recommendations ?
Also, what strategies you usually focus on these days to buy/sell real estate ?
I will not call Mr. Crump a fraud. That is a pretty serious accusation. At the same time as a high level investor coach, lawyer, investor, and lender myself, I will say that his "formula" appears to me more fluff than substance. There are no secrets in real estate investing and the idea that someone will guaranty you that you will buy a house is incompatible with coaching in my view. Candidly, I could guaranty you will buy a house. Go to Realtor.com. Pick a house. Buy it. Stay away from coaches, mentors or guides that make outrageous promises. If you want a new life or independence be prepared to work for it. I use a coach, I am a coach and I believe in coaching with every fiber of being. Having said that, crazy promises, guarantees blah blah blah is not coaching.
@Vince Mayer, I do not believe you need to have a real estate license to find a tenant buyer. If you were finding a regular, then yes. But in my lease options deals, I both explain to the owner/seller that I will be subleasing their home to a tenant/buyer. They know up front it is not me living in the home. Because the way my contract is written (by my real estate attorney with a strong background in lease options), I can do this as the investor. My mentor did suggest having tenant/buyers lined up before generating seller leads. His reasoning (and I'm still tinkering with the system on this) was have the tenant/buyer go look for properties on their own and bring back the ones they like. Like I said, I'm still tweaking the system, but my "system" is
1. Generate tenant/buyer leads on Facebook marketplace, sending them to a lead generation website (I use REI Blackbook). It autoresponds to them with an e-mail
2. Follow up with a phone call to the T/B and do some pre-approving
3. If they seem like a good fit, send them to my preferred lender (mortgage broker) who then runs a soft credit pull and gives them a credit repair plan
4. Have my Realtor send them older listings (120+ days) which will be more susceptible to a LO (or maybe owner financing)
5. Once they've found some homes they like, they go look at them. I ask that they bring back 3 homes they're interested in.
6. I negotiate with the seller or seller's agent for the LO, usually offering full asking price.
7. Once accepted, I provide a contract to the seller and a contract to the tenant/buyer. The contracts are for a lease options contracts with other paperwork and addendums.
8. I collect a Non-Refundable Option Consideration (NROC). Yes I do this, some people don't like doing it this way, but I do it to help ensure they are serious about buying, which helps the seller and leads to better buyer conversion rates. It is also good for my business to generate capital up front. I credit them the entire NROC towards the purchase of the home when they purchase. I will give them a third of the money back if they meet some simple criteria (so it is somewhat refundable).
9. The mortgage lender follows up with them monthly or quarterly to ensure they are moving forward on their credit repair plan.
10. They (hopefully) close within 2 years, sometimes 3.
(NOTE: To new investors, it's that "simple" but not that easy. There's a lot to know, please don't look at those steps and just go do it. If you don't understand lease options, seek some mentorship of some kind first. I will, free time pending, teach someone the basics. I'm at present also looking for *one* person to take under my wing specifically on lease options...PM me for details)
As for Joe Crump, I too considered him simply because of his Automarketer. I figured I could have some kid do this for me, which would probably cost me a few hundred bucks a month anyways. If it's not as good as he makes it sound and as you say, then I may stay away. I too have found, like you said, FSBOs and expired listings are good for sellers, Facebook is awesome for buyers. I'm having some luck with older listings, but then I still have to go through Realtors, which can be frustrating...I think I just like the pain of going back and forth with them. Most lighten up after a minute and see the upside. Especially when it's 5+ months old I say "hey you're about to lose this listing anyways, right? Why not pitch this to your seller and still collect the full commission, even if it's 2 years down the road?" Many have the light bulb go on at that point.
Does anyone happen to have a good Craigslist scraper they like for REI? I'm still small enough I don't mind doing it manually. There's something oddly therapeutic about the repetition for a short while...maybe I have issues. Eventually I'd rather automate the Craigslist scraping/contacting though.
Jason- sent you a message to connect.
My input on Automarketer-- I used it (somewhat diligently) for about 6 mos. Had VA taking the inbound positive replies from text blast that was sent as result of scrape of FSBO, For Rent Craigslist ads. I spoke to some sellers (probably not enough) to get feel for motivation. I'm in Baltimore market at it's a seller's market (slowing up a bit) but it's stable since the fed govt has big employer base here. There are still lease options deals to do, I'm starting to build that pipeline again (been busy with a lot of rehab/sell projects) so I may start paying for Joe's software again -- if nothing else to leverage my time. But I think there are some markets where there are a lot more sellers that could benefit from that exit strategy-- I think towns in the midwest-- OH, IA, IL, MI -- could be good targets. Hope that helps
Never heard of him doesn't mean he isnt good, so many gurus hard to keep track lol. Most people on here are anti guru. Most could have had a bad experience and some probably didn't do what they said. I had plenty of friends jump on here complaining how bad gurus were. they had several guru programs asked them to use one of them and did a deal with it quickly. Gurus capitalize cause they know most will turn realestate into rocket science and need their hand held. Networking events to some not enough .
subject to I have done plenty of those first one was a pain. I have done it in 32 markets. First time I did it to get the property to fix n flip. Paid roughly 900 for two months. Fixed it up and sold fast, got a rehab loan for a few grand 4% or so, I was broke and no credit card or friends to ask. Once done I paid the mortgage off rehab loan back and still walked away with 88k profit not bad seeing how I only put 1800 into it out of pocket. I have partnered with homeowner before, they put up deal I got rehab loan we split profits and I did ok made 6 figures on a few deals. I could go on and on. Pm if you want. Enjoy your day
Originally posted by @Jason Pinkerton:@Vince Mayer, I do not believe you need to have a real estate license to find a tenant buyer. If you were finding a regular, then yes. But in my lease options deals, I both explain to the owner/seller that I will be subleasing their home to a tenant/buyer. They know up front it is not me living in the home. Because the way my contract is written (by my real estate attorney with a strong background in lease options), I can do this as the investor. My mentor did suggest having tenant/buyers lined up before generating seller leads. His reasoning (and I'm still tinkering with the system on this) was have the tenant/buyer go look for properties on their own and bring back the ones they like. Like I said, I'm still tweaking the system, but my "system" is
1. Generate tenant/buyer leads on Facebook marketplace, sending them to a lead generation website (I use REI Blackbook). It autoresponds to them with an e-mail
2. Follow up with a phone call to the T/B and do some pre-approving
3. If they seem like a good fit, send them to my preferred lender (mortgage broker) who then runs a soft credit pull and gives them a credit repair plan
4. Have my Realtor send them older listings (120+ days) which will be more susceptible to a LO (or maybe owner financing)
5. Once they've found some homes they like, they go look at them. I ask that they bring back 3 homes they're interested in.
6. I negotiate with the seller or seller's agent for the LO, usually offering full asking price.
7. Once accepted, I provide a contract to the seller and a contract to the tenant/buyer. The contracts are for a lease options contracts with other paperwork and addendums.
8. I collect a Non-Refundable Option Consideration (NROC). Yes I do this, some people don't like doing it this way, but I do it to help ensure they are serious about buying, which helps the seller and leads to better buyer conversion rates. It is also good for my business to generate capital up front. I credit them the entire NROC towards the purchase of the home when they purchase. I will give them a third of the money back if they meet some simple criteria (so it is somewhat refundable).
9. The mortgage lender follows up with them monthly or quarterly to ensure they are moving forward on their credit repair plan.
10. They (hopefully) close within 2 years, sometimes 3.
(NOTE: To new investors, it's that "simple" but not that easy. There's a lot to know, please don't look at those steps and just go do it. If you don't understand lease options, seek some mentorship of some kind first. I will, free time pending, teach someone the basics. I'm at present also looking for *one* person to take under my wing specifically on lease options...PM me for details)
As for Joe Crump, I too considered him simply because of his Automarketer. I figured I could have some kid do this for me, which would probably cost me a few hundred bucks a month anyways. If it's not as good as he makes it sound and as you say, then I may stay away. I too have found, like you said, FSBOs and expired listings are good for sellers, Facebook is awesome for buyers. I'm having some luck with older listings, but then I still have to go through Realtors, which can be frustrating...I think I just like the pain of going back and forth with them. Most lighten up after a minute and see the upside. Especially when it's 5+ months old I say "hey you're about to lose this listing anyways, right? Why not pitch this to your seller and still collect the full commission, even if it's 2 years down the road?" Many have the light bulb go on at that point.
Does anyone happen to have a good Craigslist scraper they like for REI? I'm still small enough I don't mind doing it manually. There's something oddly therapeutic about the repetition for a short while...maybe I have issues. Eventually I'd rather automate the Craigslist scraping/contacting though.
I sent you a request to connect. You are doing exactly what I am trying to do.
Is there any way we could talk?
I hope to hear from you, thank you!
Originally posted by @John Webster:Never heard of him doesn't mean he isnt good, so many gurus hard to keep track lol. Most people on here are anti guru. Most could have had a bad experience and some probably didn't do what they said. I had plenty of friends jump on here complaining how bad gurus were. they had several guru programs asked them to use one of them and did a deal with it quickly. Gurus capitalize cause they know most will turn realestate into rocket science and need their hand held. Networking events to some not enough .
subject to I have done plenty of those first one was a pain. I have done it in 32 markets. First time I did it to get the property to fix n flip. Paid roughly 900 for two months. Fixed it up and sold fast, got a rehab loan for a few grand 4% or so, I was broke and no credit card or friends to ask. Once done I paid the mortgage off rehab loan back and still walked away with 88k profit not bad seeing how I only put 1800 into it out of pocket. I have partnered with homeowner before, they put up deal I got rehab loan we split profits and I did ok made 6 figures on a few deals. I could go on and on. Pm if you want. Enjoy your day
Hi! I sent you a request to connect. Would ypu be willing to talk and let me ask you a few questions?
Thank you, I hope to hear from you soon!
I did try his software, however, He was in the middle of changing it from scraping Craigslist to Zillow which would make it more efficient. I stopped using it because I didn't want to pay $200 a month through the initial bugs. Plus I felt that I needed to educate myself a little more on the strategies. From what I see with the Real Estate business, the more technology savvy you are or well versed with creative methods the easier it is to obtain a deal. His concept does not seem bad. I may have to give it a shot again. Still working on finding my niche.
I used Joe's software and was foolishly caught up in his sales pitch about his "Buying Events" that I paid for his coaching. Now I have, as I am sure we all have, purchased programs that were a waste of money before but this one takes the cake. The strategy is great and I have learned it from some great teachers, got some different points of view but all great info.
I got Joe Crumps "coaching" because he promised in these "buying events" we would get group leaders and we would spend at least half a day role-playing calls and then do coached live calls and then make live calls solo. He promises a step-by-step learning process. That is NOT what he delivered. In fact, out of the about 35 people there, only 1(one) of them had been to his events before and had experience with his training. The "groups" that he said we get in his sales material - were just him pairing us up with each other and said role-play for 30 minutes. Again, I have been to some great bootcamps/workshops and some bad ones and this was one of, if not, the worst one of them all. The most expensive that promised the most and delivered the least!!
As for his PushButton Automarketer software, it is supposed to go and scrap Zillow FSBO listings and automatically text them. First, let me say that I live in a market with over a million people. The first month I started with the software is the only month that I had more than 2(two) leads. Yes, you read that correctly - 1 to 2 leads a month! I started double-checking Zillow manually and there were always at least 15-20 new FSBO's listed that the software did not scrape. It is definitely not worth what he is charging!!
The last thing I will mention is his refund or "If you don't do a deal in 6 months I will give you your money back" guarantee. The issue here is that he makes the requirements nearly impossible to keep week after week. He requires you to talk to several people every week yet his software only gives you 1-2 leads per month. Let me just add in here that I get that you have to go above and beyond to be successful in this business (and I have, and I am) but he sets you up to fail. Even when I tried to cancel my software 3 months early and only asked for two months refunded he said I won't do that but I can add two months to your 6-month subscription. Why would you add two months to a subscription that someone is not happy with because they are not getting the leads it promises?
In my experience, Joe is only about getting his money. He will make it so there is no way you would ever get your money back. In any other class I have ever been in the trainers always talk about deals they have done, gives real-life examples. Joe Crump is the only trainer that has never (as far as I can remember, and it has been only three months since my 6 months "coaching" ended) given any examples of deals he has done. He talks about students deals but I have never heard of a deal he has actually done.
If you want to learn about Lease Options and Creative buying strategies, this is not the person you want to learn from, By Far! There are a lot of good, ethical trainers out there but Joe Crump is not one of them. Look up Vena Jones-Cox, John Jackson, Wendy Patton, or Keith & Shannon French to name a few.