Please help $41,000 paid to a guru company to be refunded !

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Please help $41,000 paid to a guru company to be refunded !

Investor · IL · Member since 2015 · 95 posts · 20 votes

Hi to all investors out there, hope you have any advise or resource to help me out.

About 3 weeks ago I paid about $41,000 to a real estate investing company. After I have paid, their attitude and responsibility promised to me changed totally. Slowly I lost my trust on them, so decided to go ahead and ask for a refund.

after a couple of phone calls they only agreed and only refunded me $14,500 and will further refund my $4,500 if I sign their refund agreement ( I guess they are trying to get me sign and agree those are the amount I agree to be refunded and I can't take any other further action to ask more refund), I said I have to call you back. The only reason they holding strongly to argue with me for not willing to refund the most of the amount paid is that I have signed the contract ! They have so smoothly get me to sign a piece of agreement paper, without making it clear that was a " contract" I signed.

Please, do you have any advise or resource that can help me get most portion of the money back?

any suggestion or advise is greatly appreciated !

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Most Popular Reply

Investor · Singapore · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 3k+ votes

How will an attorney help? It will just cost more money. You signed a contract. Unless you prove they faked your signature, I don't see what an attorney can do. These scammers have expensive attorneys on their end writing tight contracts. They know they are going to have tons of pissed of customers (victims) and know how to protect themselves. Just like timeshares. Once you sign, you have no real recourse after the 3 day period. Unless the contract promises refund, you are stuck. Did you pay it all up front? If not, you could stop paying them any more. IF you paid it up front, I am sorry. Maybe take what the offer back and consider the loss your education. You have now learned to read contracts before signing them, a good skill to have!

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Min K.
Investor · Santa Clara, CA · Member since 2015 · 17 posts · 5 votes
11y
Originally posted by @Wilson Churchill:

It sounds like the Whitney Information Network, aka Rich Dad.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HE6nT0oyPt8
Agreed
0 Reply
Joe Cummings
Philly Burbs, PA · Member since 2015 · 338 posts · 133 votes
11y
Originally posted by @Wilson Churchill:

It sounds like the Whitney Information Network, aka Rich Dad.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HE6nT0oyPt8
Wow, look at those grown up people raising their hands like little school children.
I hate to say it, but no successful business person I know would exhibit such submissive body language.
1 Reply
Dave Fontana
Rental Property Investor · Western Carolina · Member since 2010 · 144 posts · 66 votes
11y
@Debbie Lee
After hearing more about this company. I think a call to the FBI would be appropriate. The fact that the first sales person took $4500.00 and than disappeared?? This is defiantly a boiler room type of situation. The second salesperson took 35K and now they're asking for another 15k. I would go to the local FBI office first thing tomorrow morning. They might be able to get this this group, and possible get you some money back.
Going forward, Bigger Pockets is you best source for real estate education, lots of people will mentor you and its free.
Again, sorry to hear it!! Good Luck!!
2 Reply
Account Closed
Santa Clara, CA · Member since 2015 · 66 posts · 28 votes
11y
'They taught us how to ask for a raised credit limit from our existing credit card company, and also show us websites how to open up more new credit cards to get up to $40,000 to pay them almost immediately.'
O.M.G.! This has to be border line illegal. I am so sorry for your trouble.
3 Reply
Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
11y
@Dave Fontana
Just wanted to make a clarification.. One cannot just go to an FBI office... YOu can't get in one period .... If you want to file a compliant with the FBI you call the local field office and they will take a statement on the phone.. Then they will call you back if they are interested at all in what your complaint is.. if they never call they are not interested.. If they do call you back they will have you come to their office but you never get inside.. You will meet them in a little meeting room out in the parking lot were there are security folks there as well.
I think a complaint to one's credit card fraud division would be a good start if in fact this is what they are doing talking folks into raising their limits I agree that seems like a scheme the CC would want to know about. and monitor.
The local AG would be an appropriate place to make these kind of complaints..
At the end of the day those people do need to look within themselves.. there is no free lunch you don't get rich in RE by attending any seminar .. you may learn some skills or schemes or tools but then you have to implement them and so few can actually implement them that on the face we already know 90% or more people will never do anything with what they learn be it from a guru or from BP or any other source.. that is just the reality of Real Estate.. Same with getting a RE license and wanting to sell RE... Its a great industry certainly treated me well.. But only about 20% of agents really make money...
Most of these folks would be much better served to work their professions save there investment money and buy RE close to home and grow a portfolio steadily over time.
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6 Reply
Wilson Churchill
Madison Heights, MI · Member since 2014 · 472 posts · 132 votes
11y
I actually paid a guru company for coaching (Carleton Sheets) about 10 years ago, but it was much cheaper, and it came with an additional note buying course. Based on my experience, the meat and potatoes of any program will be in the books and videos. Just read the books and leave it at that. Find a mentor locally if you want coaching.
3 Reply
Account Closed
Santa Clara, CA · Member since 2015 · 66 posts · 28 votes
11y
Pardon the jest, but someone tell me I am having a nightmare right now and am NOT actually reading this thread.
A 'company' telling you helpfully how to get raised CC limits so you can pay them? Good G-d!
9 Reply
Jared Vidales
Investor · Scottsdale, AZ · Member since 2011 · 509 posts · 134 votes
11y
Jeeze....41k.....I could flip a house with that...
8 Reply
Rhonda E.
Realtor · Celebration, FL · Member since 2013 · 109 posts · 34 votes
11y
1) File a dispute with the credit card company(s) that you used to make the payment.
2) File a complaint with the Better Business Bureau (if this company is a member which I doubt)
3) Read through the contract that you signed. What does it say about refunds? Usually you have a time frame to request a refund.
4) I would seek the advice of an attorney. This company might be in breach of the contract if they have not followed through on their promise(s) to you.
2 Reply
Mark Cruse
Investor · Fort Washington, MD · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
11y
This thread hurts my head. There are just so many of these stories out there and it's so tragic.
3 Reply
Account Closed
Houston, TX · Member since 2015 · 17 posts · 4 votes
11y
Preach it mark.
1 Reply
Debbie Lee
OP
Investor · IL · Member since 2015 · 95 posts · 20 votes
11y
I actually found out a another person I met at seminar she paid $30,000 but was able to get back $ 23,000 , She is on the way getting the money transfer back to her account.
I will use this case to argue with the company after she safe and soundly have her money on her hand.
As I paid total of $41,000, was given refund for $14,5000 and a further $4,500 if I agree to sign their refund agreement. ( I am sure the agreement is to stop me from asking more refund !)
Any thought?
0 Reply
Rod Desinord
Real Estate Agent · Pompano Beach, FL · Member since 2015 · 249 posts · 73 votes
11y
Can't believe what im reading. You paid a company 41k?
1 Reply
Debbie Lee
OP
Investor · IL · Member since 2015 · 95 posts · 20 votes
11y
@Rhonda E.
Thank you for all your great advises. I think I will first get the the advise from a attorney than move from there.
0 Reply
Joel OwensBusiness Member
Moderator
Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
11y
I watched the video.
The debate about their tactics and how they get money are personal opinions. It seemed like the presenter was telling you what you had to do and wasn't pulling any punches about it.
The reality here is things are NOT free. It costs money to lease a space, put on a conference, hire staff, pay for marketing materials.
So people that buy into things that are being said something is free you need to really look at yourself and ask does that make sense?? Sadly many people going to these events do not have a financial education and can easily be taken advantage of.
Do we really believe as a society that someone is going to come out of pocket tons of money to instruct people they have never met on how to become a millionaire??
People's time cost money and that is a reality. Rather than pre-printed national materials these people likely might be better off connecting with an investor local to them doing deals already. People get mad when they learn someone is not going to make them a millionaire for free.............. : )
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2 Reply
Debbie Lee
OP
Investor · IL · Member since 2015 · 95 posts · 20 votes
11y
@Rod Desinord yes, now I think back... I did not know what was wrong with me, but the company definitely has put up a " world class" magic show that a big bunch of people got hooked that day.
0 Reply
Account Closed
Investor · Singapore · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 3k+ votes
11y
As @Jay Hinrichssays, none of us have read the contract. But I would bet that these scammers have all the loopholes tied up. That probably includes dealing with people disputing credit card charges, lawyers, all of it. They know they are not selling a legitimate product worth that kind of money (a years tuition at an Ivy League, as a point of reference!). Don't you think they know that a lot of people will have second thoughts and try to claim refunds? I do hope @Debbie Lee gets some or all of her money back. But spending money on lawyers may just be throwing good money after bad.
3 Reply
Debbie Lee
OP
Investor · IL · Member since 2015 · 95 posts · 20 votes
11y
@Account Closed I think I do agree with your point !
After they have done huge effort of seminar tours, advertising, putting up " magic shows " would they be so dumb not doing anything to protect their money?
0 Reply
Lew Payne
Property Manager · Boise, ID · Member since 2014 · 160 posts · 192 votes
11y
Debbie, I'm curious - exactly what were you expecting from them? What service are you buying from them? All I've heard so far is ancillary information and personal opinion.
For example, you were devastated that the first employee that took your $4,500 down payment left the company several days after. Was part of their contract "we agree to not fire any employees, and our employees agree to never quit?" How long must an employee be obligated to remain with a company, from the time you sign a contract with them, in your opinion? How long had that employee already worked at the company, prior to you signing with them? Why do you feel devastated? Were you signing a personal contract with the employee exclusively, or with the company as a whole?
You also state that you were furious when they asked you to not text them day and night, and you implied that you expected instant (same-day) replies. Is there some type of service agreement you signed with them, stating the response period and how inquires would be handled?
I have no idea if you were ripped off or not; anyone dissatisfied with a service can make any claim they want... that doesn't make it factual nor a breach of contract. So, rather than delve on opinion or the general sympathy of this group, please provide a scanned copy of the contract you signed and all the associated paperwork, so we can make an informed opinion on here.
5 Reply
Joe Moore
Rental Property Investor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2010 · 804 posts · 230 votes
11y
@Debbie Lee Sorry that you are having such a costly terrible experience. I would join Legal Shield and they will go over that contract with you for no additional cost. That will probably your best starting point. Good luck.
0 Reply
Neil Aggarwal
Lender · Richardson, TX · Member since 2014 · 537 posts · 228 votes
11y
It sounds like the guru was selling info on how to manipulate credit cards. If so, the OP may not have clean hands.
1 Reply
Account Closed
Investor · Singapore · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 3k+ votes
11y
@Lew PayneWhich scammer "guru" do you work for? This business model is well developed. Most are TV reality show stars. They all follow the same script. Have people raise their credit limits, high pressure sales and delivering little to no value for the money spent. The dance on the right side of the law because when you read the contract you will find they did not really promise anything at all. Just vague "mentoring" whatever that means. I have not fallen for this but have been to a couple of "free" seminars, mostly for entertainment value and a study of human psychology. Every standard influence and sales tactic described in a dozen books are employed. Plants are placed in the audience. Most of the audience is unsophisticated and mostly broke. These parasites prey on the weak and offer nothing in return. I don't care if they are legal, its a slimy exploitative business. There is really no excuse for it. At least in a timeshare sale you actually get a a timeshare, overpriced as it may be.
6 Reply
Ryan Mullin
Real Estate Broker · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2009 · 575 posts · 496 votes
11y
Just to be clear... the video posted was Rich dad during the time period that Russ Whitney licensed the brand... that was quite a few years ago.
I don't think the company that this post is about is Rich dad... Right..?
0 Reply
Debbie Lee
OP
Investor · IL · Member since 2015 · 95 posts · 20 votes
11y
@Lew Payne I am not expecting those individual consultant to deliver more than what they are asked for. But, why got me so devastated was both of them promised so much before I gave them the money. The 1st consultant even "pretend" to have good relationship with me and PROMISED to help me step by step, so surely she knew she was leaving way ahead, why wouldn't she tell me she was leaving? instead PROMISED so much and deliver nothing.
The 2nd consultant send me to the wrong place for bootcamp the day after I paid him $35,000, it was a very snowing day, I spend 1 1/2 hour driving to the wrong place found out no one was there, would you call this guy right the way? ha ha , guess what he was not available and I left a voice message. I waited 5 days to get him to talk to me "properly".
He end up telling me " he is a single dad and he is very busy....." no apology what so ever !!!!
@Lew Payne do you have any misunderstanding over the issue I have over here?
I am totally agree with @Account Closed which scammer guru do you work for?
1 Reply
Debbie Lee
OP
Investor · IL · Member since 2015 · 95 posts · 20 votes
11y
@Ryan Mullin no that is not the one
0 Reply

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