Please help $41,000 paid to a guru company to be refunded !

459 Replies

@Lew Payne from your thread " please provide a scanned copy of the contract you signed and all the associated paperwork, so we can make an informed opinion on here" 

Are you  some type of consumer rights related attorney? What type of your background knowledge makes you so confident to ask me showing you the contract?

If none of the above , PLEASE do not waste my time! I am talking $41,000 here ! talking this is a scam !

@Debbie Lee

Wow, I don't know where to start. There is almost always some discrepancy (however unintentional) between what the sales guy says you'll get and what actually happens. But, wow if I understand you correctly they really dropped the ball.

If I understand the essence of what you're saying correctly they pressured you (arguable duress) into maxing out your cards and then when you signed up quickly vanished on you and didn't provide the support they claimed (possible fraud.)

Well, it will cost you, but yes, get a lawyer to write demand letters. This isn't legal advice, nonetheless there are some other steps you might consider:

@Dave Fontana is correct the FBI may well get involved. Do yourself a favor and obtain council before contacting the police, FBI or any other enforcement agency. You might also consider sending complaints to the attorneys general of the relevant states (yours and the state they're incorporated in, etc.) and the federal trade commission. Your lawyer can help you with that part too. If they're really up to no good they're not going to want to be put under a microscope by various enforcement agencies.

Please update this thread with your progress and let us know how things go! We all hope you get your money back. Money isn't something that grows on trees!

Ive got a bridge for sale that crosses the Chesapeake bay,..I'm thinking of calling it the Chesapeake bay looking for investors, let me know.....

Originally posted by @Debbie Lee :

@Lew Payne from your thread " please provide a scanned copy of the contract you signed and all the associated paperwork, so we can make an informed opinion on here" 

Are you  some type of consumer rights related attorney? What type of your background knowledge makes you so confident to ask me showing you the contract?

If none of the above , PLEASE do not waste my time! I am talking $41,000 here ! talking this is a scam !

I'm not the one asking for help in a public forum - you are... so if wanting to know the facts (as opposed to your interpretation) is a waste of time, so be it. As to which scammer I work for... I'm a retired software engineer, now focusing on investing my IRA in rentals and flips.

It's sad that anyone who asks for more information rather than immediately sympathizing is personally attacked by some of the members on here.  When I'm considering investing in a property, I don't just trust what I'm told - I ask for factual documentation in support of the numbers.  Many of you probably do the same, or at least should be doing so.

However, when I ask for factual information and attempt to establish what the expectation was (versus the contractual obligation), I am met with ad hominem attacks by some adult children on here.  I didn't come to this forum to argue with adult children who are incapable of rational discussion... I came to learn, assess, and analyze the facts.

Please keep your ad hominem attacks to yourself.  Just because you may not agree with or like someone else's rational approach does not make it wrong.

I tend to agree with @Lew Payne

I think he is trying to establish what was promised and what was delivered according to the contract. That is where the legalaity of it all will come down. It doesn't matter what was promised on the phone, but what was written and signed. 

I think we all agree that the company is not exactly ethical, but a contract was signed and money exchanged. If the op did not understand or look at what was signed that is her fault and a very expensive lesson. If the contract had a money back garauntee then that is a different story. However, the op has given no details on what was in the contract which makes me skeptical of what was promised in writing and if there was any garauntee. 

Let's put it back on the tracks............. : )

A conversation should be able to be discussed by all without inferring or personal type attacks or character assassinations.

For anyone who looks at a contract you have a " right to your own inquiry ". This typically means that it is your RESPONSIBILITY to read and understand every word of the contract. If there is something you do not understand then as a signer you are supposed to seek clarity on it until you are satisfied and ready to sign.

This doesn't mean people are not committing gross negligence and fraud against you with a deceptive contract. The problem is varying states in this country are founded on different types of law. So going to court even if you have a 100% in the right case an honest attorney will tell you that there is at least an 80% chance of losing. You just never know what will happen in court and what the judge will think and interpret. 

The reality is the company that this poster used will likely keep rolling on doing what they are doing. The best the poster can hope for is getting as much back as possible.

No legal advice given.  

My goodness! I felt silly for spending $300 on a real estate investing course after I found BP. I can't even imagine what you're feeling right now. Share the company's name. No need in being discreet about people who'd willingly rip off folks who are trying to get ahead in life.

$41k would purchase the house and complete the rehab on one of my newest leads - a 3bd/2ba, 1466 sqft house I just found this weekend.

Damn those guru companies! The people in charge have no morals. I'm so sorry this happened, but there's a lesson in every bad situation. I'm sure due diligence won't be a problem for you ever again.

I'm going to guess the company is SP - PFT. (You can see posters previous posts on their profiles.)

Perhaps off topic, so I can edit or feel free to delete, but how in the world does a person dig themself out of a $41,000 credit card bill?

well, thank you for all above various different comment. 

I do know very well is my fault that I did not know what I was signing, and I do believe they intend to let me sign my name away with knowing I was signing a "contract ". So, when asking for a refund if based on " I have signed the contract", I am for sure loosing the battle, period !

However, there are many arguable points to be investigated, the biggest one being teaching us how to max out our CC cards, how to wholesaling : they taught us to find properties from MLS and apparently this is illegal ! as we do not have license to do so.( this info I just red from the BP thread discussion )

So if the company's operation is not legal in everyday, at law, what do they stand on to take away our money ?

Originally posted by @Dave Fontana:


Sorry to hear it!!

How did you pay them? I.E. Credit card,  bank check, etc??

Try the State of Illinois Attorney General and the you local consumer affairs department.

Also , I'm curious, what or how did they change. It's common for a salesperson to over promise and the company under deliver. No doubt, there must be some buyer remorse, after seeing the gurus system. 

I hope you share the gurus name. It is criminal to charge so much.

 @Dave Fontana has some excellent advice

Do write to the Attorney General

Do get in touch with your Local Consumer Affairs department

Do see if you can get any of the TV channels that investigate rip offs

Do start talking about the Names of the people that charged you this money.

Of course as Dave suggests if you paid any part of this by credit card ask your credit card company not to honor the bill

In short do it all.

Consult with a lawyer and see what he has to say about your position and keep BiggerPockets posted.  


Originally posted by @Rhonda E. :

3) Read through the contract that you signed.  What does it say about refunds?  Usually you have a time frame to request a refund.


Maybe something like, if you make a complain, you have to pay for our lawyer. Refund? Not a chance.

Originally posted by @John Thedford :

You might be able to get the charges reversed on your credit cards. I would file a complaint immediately. You can try the non-receipt of goods or services angle and see if you can get results that route. It is really a shame to see things like this happen. Don't get discouraged with RE though. There are dishonest people in all facets of life. Real estate is no different. Please keep us posted and please post the name of this company. Good luck.


That's your first, most Important thing to do.

Call each credi card company

Tell them you are contesting the charge.  You want the charges removed from your credit card and you want the credit card company to Block this company from rebilling your card

Do it immediatly like NOW.  Call each one. 

@Debbie Lee

The first step to achieving anything of significance is to recognize and accept your mistakes.  You have done that and it's commendable.  Yes, it's a lot of money but regardless of the outcome, the next step is to learn from your mistake and allow it to stir an even greater fire inside you to succeed. You'll miss a lot of living if you're always looking in the rear view mirror.  And trust me, most everyone here (including me!) has made financial mistakes during the course of their investing career.  Don't beat yourself up over what you did in the past.  If it can't be corrected, then move on and let it make you a better investor and business person. 

@Debbie Lee I want to be blunt, not to keep your hopes. I sincerely hope you get your money back from credit card fraud. With regards to a lawyer, I am inclined to the persons saying that it is useless. I have 2 friends in your situation right now, I know what they feel or about to feel. It will be a long shot, but you and about 100 others, might want to launch a class suite complaint vs that company, if they have all the paperwork, that is the only thing that I could think of that will work. It might be only 5% chance of recovering the money, but its better than going after on your own. For this you need a big shot attorney on contingency basis, at least, it gives them the motivation of 4M in lawsuite, at 50%, they MIGHT (and I seriously doubt it) take it.

Second is, BP is a community that will help you, and you are here asking help, in order for the community to help, let us know the company name, right now, your chance is almost 0% chance of recovery, so if I were you, I would not worry and let others help me.

@Guy Gimenez yes, agree ! I do admit this mistake was done very carelessly, I took it very lightly and was not aware how serious it is.

Going forward, I planing to use something like legal shield service which suggested by @Joe Moore , you pay like $20 per month and with unlimited access to attorneys all state ( exact detail I am not certain, and of course I will find out before signing up)

Debbie Tell the credit card company you want the charge removed because they did a Bait and Switch and a total Scam   Call all the credit card companies and move foward

Did you write or get someone help you to write to the Attorney General in your state"
Did you file a claim with the local Consumer's Protection?

Do something fo yourself in addition to writing on Bigger Pockets.

What did the Lawyer say?

@Debbie Lee  I try to pm you, but my computer erase the message and I didn't want to do it again.  At Legal Shield they will have you upload your contract to their site and then review it.  They will then call you back and advise you about the contract.  I have them review any contract and advise me before I sign any contract.

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