All Forum Posts by: Cornelius Garland

@Paul T. I would look into  Property List Manager. You can keep track of which lists you've hit already and you can also stack your lists based on motivation. I was using it for a while, but I found that the extra time to remove leads that responded to my marketing wasn't worth it. I easily keep track of my leads because I only have one way of marketing to sellers now. I don't do direct mail, voicemail blast, or cold call. I focused on what was getting 80% of my deals and double-downed on this. Before I used one form of marketing, I would only take people off my list that I was actively working deals with. Anybody on the fence or was thinking about my offer would still get my message. This actually worked in my favor because I would forget to follow up with my leads sometimes. I wouldn't overthink this too much. I've been down the same path that you're on right now.  

@Allyson Straka Glad to help! I like systems too, but I tend to get overwhelmed if I think about them too much. I would put a simple plan in place and perfect your systems as you gain experience. Wishing you the best, and please keep me updated with your progress!

@Jeremiah Alston Of course! I like talking about REI and try to hop on BP whenever I can to help out. But man, oh man...I did that when I started out and remember those days well. I was initially driving for dollars and then once I had about 20 addresses, I would hop on the tax assessor and get their mailing addresses. It seemed like it took all day to write, stamp and send off 20 of them. The frustrating part is that I didn't get any responses. I finally just set the money aside and did a direct mail campaign. My first batch I sent off was to around 1500 homeowners.

In my opinion, I think it's best to save up some money and then do your direct mail campaign. On average, my yellow letter campaigns were getting 3% response rates on the initial touch and then it'll decrease about a half of percent for the following touches. I didn't' get responses from my drive for dollars campaigns because 3% of 20 is .6%, which is not even one seller response. These are just response rates, and the conversion rates will be lower. So, you need to be doing a large quantity of direct mail in order to get a response. As I mentioned earlier, you're best off hitting more people and spending less on the mail piece than spending more on the mail piece and hitting fewer people. There's really not that big of a difference between .5-3% in direct mail response rates to justify you spending your time and effort writing the letters. The real work starts after you send out the marketing and you begin talking to sellers, analyzing deals, finding buyers, and working with attorneys. You don't want to expend all of this effort on the first part when you have a few more steps to go. After you write the letters and send them off, you'll expect that the calls will start rolling in because you did a lot of hard work. The sellers don't know this and don't care (honestly). Your mail piece will look like the rest of them. Also, you need to be talking to sellers now and writing handwritten letters isn't going to change the quality of seller. Most sellers are hip to direct mail and fancy envelopes now. If they're going to read your mail piece and respond, they will. If they're going to trash it, they will as well. Essentially, you're "splitting hairs" by focusing on handwriting mail pieces. Take it from someone that tried everything under the sun when it came to direct mail. My conclusion is that volume and consistency is king when it comes to direct mail. Please let me know if you have any additional questions.

@Allyson Straka I've bought properties from investors before, but that's been the exception and not the norm in my business.

I always run my comps after the initial call. It's so important to gather the necessary information you need on the first call so you're not doubling back or giving the seller a lower offer than you can actually get them. You get better at this by talking to a lot of sellers. You'll start to generate your pattern, and eventually it'll become second-nature to you. I have a lot of virtual markets I'm working, so it's important for me to understand the exact situation with the property so I can make sure my offer is on point. The last thing I want to do is lower the price after contract. Some investors contract properties with the intent of lowering it later, but I think this is very unethical. I had to lower the price on a deal I closed over the summer in Dania Beach, FL, but the seller also didn't disclose information about some repairs to me on the phone.

I wouldn't contract the property until I see it. I always try to get the seller to name their price, first. I ask this in a few different ways. Firstly, I would ask "do you have a particular price range in mind?" If they don't answer, I'll then dig deeper into the repairs. If I Google the property and see that it's in rough condition and it looks like a great investment property, I would then ask them "well, is any price too low?" Most times, I'm able to get a price out of them then. They'll say "well, I won't take less than X dollars because I have a mortgage, put in X amount of dollars, etc". Now, we're getting somewhere! I would set up an appointment if you're in the same ballpark. For instance, if they want $100k and you need it at $50-$60k, I would go check it out. In the beginning, you're going to get a lot of experience by going out to properties, even if the seller isn't extremely motivated. It's a quick way to "earn your stripes" and expedite the learning curve with analyzing deals.

I currently make offers without seeing properties because I know my areas really well. I still send someone out to check it out so I can try and knock off 10% on my offer price. I contract it after I finalize the offer price with the seller. Below is how I suggest you handling your first couple of deals.

1. Initial Call-Gather information and determine the seller's reason for selling (i.e., pain points and motivation)

2. Do Research-Run your comps and determine your offer. I would have a cash offer and creative financing offer available. If you're purchasing an apartment complex, it isn't uncommon for sellers to finance a portion of the purchase.

3. Second Call-Followup with seller and see if they thought about a price (if they didn't provide it to you on the initial call). Hit them with your offer price range. I would say "Mr. Seller, I'm in the 50s. Are we close?" Based on their response will determine if I'd go and see the property. If they're 30-50% within my offer price, I would set up an appointment. Sometimes, we don't know why they want a certain price until you meet with them and get the full story. Oftentimes, this can only be done with a face-to-face meeting.

4. Go on Appointment/Followup-Based on the conversation, I would go on the appointment or place them on a 2 week-1 month followup.

5. Contract/Followup-Based on the appointment, I would then contract it. Or I would continue to followup with the seller. Remember, it takes about 7 touches in order to get a deal contracted. And also remember, you don't want to move too quickly unless you can provide the seller with a credibility kit on your company. Oftentimes, if you send a contract in a day and they've only spoken to you a couple of times, they may not think you're for real. That's why I always call the seller whenever I'm following up with them so I can get those extra touches in. I probably called my last seller 50 times initial touch to closing. Most of those calls were less than 2 minutes, though.

Please let me know if you have any additional questions. I'd be glad to share my experience with you.

@Allison Meggison It's going to be very difficult to find a free source to skip trace your addresses. Honestly, Spokeo and Datazapp aren't expensive at all, compared to other services out there. Additionally, the results are pretty abysmal. You're going to have to pay to get access to the correct phone numbers for your sellers. This isn't publically available information, which is why it costs money. However, I'll point you in the right direction. Check out familytreenow.com. Sometimes, they have phone numbers on there, but they may or may not be current. I use it for research when I'm finding relatives of probate property owners. It takes some work to find the right person, especially if they have a common name. But I've found the addresses to be extremely accurate. I never tried their phone numbers, but it's worth a shot if you're looking for an inexpensive solution. Please let me know if you have any additional questions.

@Paul T. Dude, I know the struggle. I actually used Podio and had all of these tools that were supposed to make my life easier. They actually just overcomplicated things for me. To be honest, I got rid of Podio this summer and I just work off of Google Spreadsheets. I keep track of my appointments by putting them on my Google Calendar, that syncs to my Mac and phone.

Yep yep, the inability to de-duplicate rows in Podio is very annoying. I was paying my virtual assistant to pretty much just clean up the mess Podio made. I had my VA remove the duplicates weekly and check for duplicates before they put a new lead in. One solution I had, though, was to control what I put in there. So, I would definitely only put actual leads into Podio; don't put your prospects. If people just come in from your voicemail blasts are you have your direct mail voicemails tied in there, I would remove those. It's much more manageable if you're monitoring what goes in the system than trying to clean it up once it's already in. Please let me know if you have any other questions.

@Allyson Straka Hello! Your criteria is solid for who you marketed to. I typically go 15 years back and also remove LLCs because they're going to be investors, like you, playing the same game. If you're marketing to LLCs, then you may encounter a little bit more resistance from the owners, especially since you're starting out.

This is how I handle my offer process. Firstly, if the seller is mentioning price right off the bat, then this is typically an indication that they're not motivated to sell. There needs to be some underlying motivation why they're selling. For instance, there is deferred maintenance, the property manager isn't doing their job, or they're getting too old to manage it are all things to listen for on your call with the seller. I rarely go out to a property if the seller hasn't given me a price range. You'll need to speak with a lot of sellers to get a deal, and it isn't the best use of your time to jump in your car to see a property when the seller may not be motivated. This is why gauging their motivation on the phone is extremely important. I always do this by asking questions and seeing if they're willing to answer them.

On your initial call, you need to gather as much information as possible regarding the property. Don't focus on making the offer then. Common questions I ask on multifamily properties are the following: is it fully occupied? What are the lease terms? Properties over 5 units are evaluated heavily on the occupancy rates. However, if you're dealing with duplexes, tris and quads, then you'll evaluate these more like single family houses. Next, I would ask the overall condition of the interior and when each unit was last updated. Then I would ask about the roof and HVACs because those are all big-ticket items. If your seller isn't giving this information or is saying "just drive by it" or "you're the one that contacted me", then I'd probably end the call. They're not motivated.

I would then look at comps that sold in the last year or so for similar properties. This can get tricky if you're evaluating a 2-4 unit and there aren't any comps. In this case, I would look at SFRs on Zillow that have similar square footage and are in similar condition as your subject property and then see what those houses sold. Most recently sold houses would have pictures listed. So if your subject said his multifamily is in rough shape and is at half occupancy, then I would look at comps that sold in poor condition. If you're looking at apartment complexes, then this is a different beast altogether. I would definitely reach out to a broker that specializes in this and pick his brain. You can pay him to evaluate deals on an as-needed basis, until you understand how to evaluate deals in your area. However, if you're dealing with 2-4 units, then you can get by with analyzing these by looking at comps on Zillow. I analyze them just like SFRs because they technically are. Hope this helps.

@Kazi Islam Of course! Please don't hesitate to post on this forum if you have any other questions. We'll point you in the right direction.

@Kazi Islam I agree with the previous posters. Additionally, direct mail is all about quantity. I used to get hanged up on how my postcards should look, the size, color, etc. But then I realized that I needed to hit as many people as possible with the budget I had. For instance, I was sending expensive yellow letters but for the same budget I could have sent 3 times as many postcards. Response rates are pretty similar for most mail pieces (.5-3%), which is why I elected to choose quantity with direct mail vs stressing about the type of mail piece. However, your messaging is still extremely important, regardless of which marketing method you use. You can put your message on an index card and it'll perform better than a shiny full-colored postcard if you have the right message. Extreme example, but hopefully this drives the point home. Wishing you much success.

@Melanie Hartmann I definitely agree with getting direct and talking with sellers. The days of just shooting out mail and hoping for the best, with no real plan, are gone. Even with cold calling, we need to be strategic. You can waste a lot of time and effort if you aren't calling sellers during peak hours (like lunch), your phone numbers are bad, or your team isn't properly training. Cold calling is very rewarding and I think has the highest ROI, but it takes work. The upside is that a lot of investors won't set aside several hours of their day to cold call, so it allows investors with smaller budgets or are just starting out to have a competitive advantage.

Additionally, tracking your metrics is huge. I'm unsure why the guys on the podcasts you listen to don't mention their numbers. It's not like their KPIs are proprietary information or anything. I truly think other investors use cold calling as a supplement to their direct mail and other marketing methods. If they get a deal out of cold calling, that's a win for them, but I don't think they focus on scaling it efficiently. Very few are actually depending on skip tracing and cold calling as their primary market method, like myself. Thanks for your input!