All Forum Posts by: Jay Hinrichs

This is cool and creative!  I'm following this for more comments.

We are seeing asking prices at approximately 10-12X the trailing twelve months rents (only rents).  That's too high.  This is why there is so much inventory, and so few takers.

My measuring stick is "Would this be a good investment for a cash investor seeking income?"  The answer is, not particularly.  If I have $500,000 to invest and am looking for income, I can draw around 4 percent from a high yield money market brokerage account through Schwab or Fidelity.  That's $20,000 a year without lifting a finger.

If I take my $500,000 and invest in a Smokies cabin earning $50,000 a year, I am buying a part time job and probably only netting $27,000 to $29,000 per year after the following expenses:

Insurance - $3500 per year

Taxes - $2000 per year

Utilities - $6000 per year

Repairs & Maintenace - $7500 per year

HOA fees - $2000-3000 per year.

Total expenses:  $21,000-$23,000 per year

If I can earn $20,000 per year on my $500,000 with virtually no risk and no effort, versus another $6-8K for much more risk and headache, the juice isn't worth the squeeze.

 ** Generally **, the guys with lots of responses on BP are good when they answer, but always remember that real estate answers are often state and municipality specific. The experienced investors that answer, usually make it pretty clear that it's from their experience.

No, the advice on BP is general in nature, and should never be taken to apply exactly to a particular situation.

Quote from @Ken M.:

Quote from @Zachary Clevenger:

Quote from @David Hori:

I've been vetting gurus to determine where an investment would return the greatest ROI. Many gurus dangle their network, trainings and resources but few deliver real value. Fewer still actually show-up to deliver the value in-person.

Pace was the only one I encountered who showed up live, who is living these deals out every day and consistently finding ways to deliver (increasing) value to his community. The quality of people in his community is exceptional - yes there are world class experts, yes they hustle and are brilliant. But what's most compelling is that he's managed to curate a group of people who also care for each other and care about HOW they conduct business. They're not out to just make money, but take care of homeowners, business owners, partners, etc and their well-being. 

Real estate investing wasn't on my radar - my focus is business acquisition, but once I encountered the Subto community and saw for myself how much they were willing to extend to me for free, I had complete confidence in making the investment.

Peace of mind with such an investment does not come cheap for me... I lost my job in July. I'm living off of cash reserves and burning through it - there is a well dry date looming on the horizon. I'm confident in the value that Pace is creating and what the Subto Community is delivering every day.

 I cannot attest to him or his character, only what I have personally experienced. I have attended several local SubTo meetups and walk away everytime meeting excellent people that care for one-another. From what the organizer tells me, Pace keeps a tight hold on the quality, organization, and methods, of how the area leaders should function.

I will continue to attend them and build those networks because I feel I get value from them, not only from an investment standpoint, but from a knowledge and growth one as well.

Hmmm, that's no reason to tie yourself to a group of people.
The Mafia is pretty tight with one another.
Not that he's Mafia, but the point is "good feelings" don't impress judges.
This isn't a Morby lawsuit, just someone doing what he teaches.

There is a difference between doing something and then later being called to account for doing it. Most of these have 3 year statute of limitations, some have 10 years SOL - from the time they are discovered. They can be discovered years later. So, the liability is decades long.

Click to enlarge

You would be well advised to read the entire summons and avoid what has been going on here

https://www.azag.gov/sites/default/files/2025-03/CV2025-008402%20State%20of%20Arizona%20v.%20Cameron%20Jones%20et%20al%20FILED%20%281%29.pdf

What We Know About the Case

1. Plaintiff and Origin

This is a civil lawsuit filed by the State of Arizona, led by Attorney General Kristin K. Mayes, in Maricopa County Superior Court.Azag+1

2. Defendants and Allegations

The complaint targets several individuals and companies—most notably Cameron Jones, Gazelle Investors, LLC, and others—accused of running an equity-stripping scheme that targeted homeowners facing foreclosure.Azag+1

3. Key Accusations

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  Consumer Fraud & Racketeering: Defendants allegedly preyed on distressed homeowners using deceptive tactics.

  
  
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  "Door knockers" were deployed to homes immediately after foreclosure notices were posted, misleading residents into thinking they were charitable or relief agents.

  
  
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  Deceptive Contracts: Many homeowners signed contracts that were invalid or heavily tilted in favor of the defendants, allowing acquisition of homes far below market value.

  
  
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  The scheme reportedly involved fraudulent bankruptcy or probate filings to delay foreclosure auctions and maintain control over properties.

  
  
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  Allegedly, title companies and law firms enabled the fraud by processing deeds, notarizing sales at below-market prices, enabling rapid property flips, and even filing lawsuits against victims to enforce transactions.Azag

  
  

4. Remedies Sought

Attorney General Mayes is seeking:

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  Civil penalties of $10,000 per instance of consumer fraud.

  
  
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  Dissolution of companies used as fronts.

  
  
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  Permanent bans preventing defendants from engaging in further real estate transactions within Arizona.

  
  
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  Additional penalties aimed at title firms or law firms involved—not just the primary defendants.Azag

  
  

5. Public Warning and Support

Attorney General Mayes warned that exploiting vulnerable homeowners will carry serious repercussions. The public is encouraged to report suspected equity-stripping schemes via the AG’s consumer protection office.Azag

What It Means (No Sugar-Coating)

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  This isn’t a small backyard dispute—the state is cracking down hard on what appears to be a systemic, predatory real estate operation.

  
  
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  The involvement of title firms and law firms suggests the scheme had a veneer of legitimacy, making it all the more dangerous. These professionals may now face serious liability.

  
  
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  The scope and depth of the remedies sought—including large financial penalties and bans—show this isn’t just a slap-on-the-wrist case; the state wants real accountability and restoration.

  
  

What You Can Do (Forward-Looking Approach)

If you’re a stakeholder or connected to the real estate community:

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  Stay savvy: Know how equity-stripping schemes play out in real time.

  
  
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  Protect clients: Especially homeowners in distress—ensure they understand the red flags: unsolicited offers, “charity-based” relief groups, contract pressure, or rapid sales.

  
  
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  Raise awareness: Educate vulnerable homeowners about how to recognize and report predatory schemes.

  
  
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  Watch the docket: Track this case in Maricopa County Superior Court. You can do that via the court’s Public Access to Court Information portal, which allows you to follow upcoming hearings, filings, and outcomes.Superior Court of Arizona

  
  

Let’s be honest: these kinds of schemes exploit people at their lowest, and they need to be stopped fast. AG Mayes isn't mincing words—she's coming after these players hard. If you want help tracking further developments or analyzing impacts on your circle, I’ve got your back.

There's been a variation on this buy in the path strategy in the East Bay from Milpitas up to Hayward or so. Deep pocket guys buying up little tilt ups owned by small family type manufacturers....machine shops, print shops etc. Holding then selling to MF stack n packs. Prop 19 reassessment killing theese small businesses anyway if transferred to the kids.  AHJ's love the increased property taxes. Way out of my wheel house. I think that strategy is already slowing down though.

I have a modified idea to this @Austin Fowler that honestly, I hope I am wrong about.... 

The idea: 

Start reaching out to regional and spec builders. 

Do so in a pitch type manner, pitching a kind of life-boat as a buyer. I'd be shocked if any engage, but it's not to get the deal now, it's about planting the seed, and making that connection. 

Because the strategy is, and potential, that this winter season could get very ugly for some. Most if not all builders will still hold a healthy dose of GFC-PTSD. 

If this winter season lands with a convergence of buyer collapse, finance wows, and retail sales falling (retail as in consumer shopping, thus stoking "the recession is here" fears)....... well it's not just a "correcting" stock market that will be of fear, but that will probably be happening too. 

Again, I really hope I am wrong on this, I do. But things keep lining up for it.  

You just may get call backs from those planted seeds. And you just may be able to get yourself into some premium inventory for as little as say 80-cents on-the-dollar, but on cost-dollar! Yes, I could see some builders happily taking such a loss for the safety and certainty of being out and not getting stuck with hot-potato. Again, GFC-PTSD. 

Various builders know, and remember, assorted horror stories of so-n-so who held on, and held-on, waiting for a recovery that didn't come soon enough, wracking up more and more debts, only to get liquidated at a far worse bottom than if they'd just pulled the cord earlier when could. 

I think the coming play will be more so about buying equity than physically building it. 

Again, let's all hope I am oh-so-wrong...... 

But if I'm not.... well, I will be pulling out my rolodex and making some calls. Personally I will be looking to talk land because, honestly, I just don't have access to as deep of pockets as you do Austin. And land is cheap to hold. 

I had chance to snag a build-ready remainder of a development, 20 some lot's, at $25k per. I screwed it up, got too greedy, pressed for $17.5k. The one who did get it, they made millions. I promised self I wouldn't make that mistake again.