Skip to content
×
Pro Members Get
Full Access!
Get off the sidelines and take action in real estate investing with BiggerPockets Pro. Our comprehensive suite of tools and resources minimize mistakes, support informed decisions, and propel you to success.
Advanced networking features
Market and Deal Finder tools
Property analysis calculators
Landlord Command Center
ANNUAL Save 16%
$32.50 /mo
$390 billed annualy
MONTHLY
$39 /mo
billed monthly
7 day free trial. Cancel anytime
×
Try Pro Features for Free
Start your 7 day free trial. Pick markets, find deals, analyze and manage properties.
All Forum Categories
All Forum Categories
Followed Discussions
Followed Categories
Followed People
Followed Locations
Market News & Data
General Info
Real Estate Strategies
Landlording & Rental Properties
Real Estate Professionals
Financial, Tax, & Legal
Real Estate Classifieds
Reviews & Feedback

All Forum Posts by: Nichole Stohler

Nichole Stohler has started 8 posts and replied 112 times.

Post: Journey to $5M with Multi-Units: FAQ

Nichole Stohler
Posted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Scottsdale, AZ
  • Posts 115
  • Votes 136

@Terrill Clark, you are welcome! Great question... in my opinion, $80 per unit is not very good at all. We've used a conservative $100 per unit per month as a rule of thumb and then set objectives to improve these numbers. If cash flow is your goal, I would look for a way to be at $100 per unit minimum when doing the estimated numbers. We'll get into details on operations and ways to increase this per unit amount. But for now, initial numbers for this property aren't looking that great.... mostly due to the purchase cost + HOA.

That being said, there could be other reasons for buying this property depending on overall goals and business plan. 

Post: Journey to $5M with Multi-Units: FAQ

Nichole Stohler
Posted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Scottsdale, AZ
  • Posts 115
  • Votes 136

@Matt Powell,  5 of the 6 is pretty awesome!   Would love to hear more about your experience and will send you a PM. 

Post: Journey to $5M with Multi-Units: FAQ

Nichole Stohler
Posted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Scottsdale, AZ
  • Posts 115
  • Votes 136

@Ryan Moore, yep -- this one covers trash and water. You are right, the big selling point is likely the pool and other community areas. Now we just have to decide if the HOA costs are worth it for this property...

Post: Journey to $5M with Multi-Units: FAQ

Nichole Stohler
Posted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Scottsdale, AZ
  • Posts 115
  • Votes 136

@Wes Woodhouse,  you are welcome!  We felt the same way about MFRs when we were starting out.   The main reason is that you are really buying an existing business.  You get to review how this business is being run today and decide if there are enough opportunities to improve operations and generate cash flow.  

We've always owned locally but that may change as we look to buy more property.... why?   Because of what is happening in our market.   I'll post more data on researching local markets and getting a handle on what is happening but in the meantime, check out this letter we just received.

Side note,  I'm also looking for feedback on other information that would be helpful to include in these posts and will send you a PM to get your thoughts. 

Post: Journey to $5M with Multi-Units: FAQ

Nichole Stohler
Posted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Scottsdale, AZ
  • Posts 115
  • Votes 136

@Ryan Moore, good to know! HOA creates such expense exposure.... I'm curious if the amenities in a community help to attract and retain tenants and thus perhaps justifes the HOA? Or... if tenant turnover is the same as a stand alone 4-Plex without a pool.

Post: Journey to $5M with Multi-Units: FAQ

Nichole Stohler
Posted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Scottsdale, AZ
  • Posts 115
  • Votes 136

@Chris H., great question. Day to day management for the landlord would all be "internal" items like collecting rent, taking tenant calls, dispatching repair services and screening new tenants. HOA would cover "external" like landscaping and trash.

Your question prompted me to also show what happens on profitability if you hire a property management company.   Using the same numbers and then 10% as an estimate for these costs.. the cash flow numbers take a big dive.  Here's the before and after:

Self Manage

Property Management

Post: Journey to $5M with Multi-Units: FAQ

Nichole Stohler
Posted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Scottsdale, AZ
  • Posts 115
  • Votes 136

Is this a good deal?

It seems there are a lot of questions about analyzing deals and how do you know if a property is “good”?  Although...good is a relative term because what is considered a good property for one person may not be for another. Ultimately, the decision will come down to your business plan and objectives.

For any new investors or folks already in some area of real estate today like house flipping that want to get into your first multi-family property, let’s skip ahead to a quick property analysis on our case study property.

We’ll come back to the business plan in future posts.

Case Study Analysis

Our case study property is a 4-plex for $219,000 in Phoenix that will require a $54,750 down payment as of today… just a quick note, I saw this Fannie Mae update about lenders easing on credit standards due to a reduced demand and competition. Perhaps down payment requirements for residential mortgages on a 4-plex might change again at some point as well?

Back to the property… the listing agent has already included a brief summary of some information that we can use to do a quick analysis of the property. I’ve recorded a video here:

https://www.useloom.com/share/7acf24e4e3244cdf88fea3e7a31dbefc


What are some key takeaways?

There are some pros about this property including:

Mix of different types of units so that a diverse set of tenants would be interested in renting. Contrast this with all one-bedroom units which rules out families and reduces the potential market for tenants.

Age of the property. This may be dependent on the local market but we try to stay with properties built at least in 1980 and up. The reason for this is due to things like asbestos in older buildings and higher maintenance costs.

Utilities are paid by the tenants. This is one of those expenses that varies greatly and can significantly impact your bottom line. Having the tenant pay for these removes a burden from you as the property owner. As an example, if you are buying the property in a new LLC without an established history with the utility company, most companies will require a deposit per unit. This increases your out of pocket initial costs. In our experience these deposits range from $200-$300 per unit. You can get back the deposits after a time period of showing that you've successfully paid on time, but ultimately, it's ideal to be in a situation where the tenant pays utilities

Some cons so far:

HOA. This is an expensive monthly cost that you can't control. You won't have the ability to reduce this expense and you could potentially pay more. The HOA could assess all community property owners for things like community center or pool repairs, resurfacing the parking lot or exterior maintenance such as painting and roof replacement. Unless you own the majority of the property in an HOA community, you'll have little say in these expenses or any increases in HOA fees.

Limited upside in rent based on market rents. A quick search on the various market rent sites and we can see that this property is almost at market rates. This means you’ll have limited opportunity to increase your revenue in the short term.

Areas for further due diligence include:

Any known up-coming HOA assessments (pool, parking lot, exterior improvements, etc.) It's possible these have already been communicated to the community property owners. If so, you'll need to understand what these costs are. Historical information about any last assessments and what they were for would be helpful as well.

How long have the tenants been in the property? You’re looking to understand stability of the property. Did the tenants just sign a lease two weeks before the property was listed? Or, have they been living in the property for a longer time period? You will also want to know the length of the leases in place and when they expire. And finally, how are the current tenants about paying rent on time?

What are the actual rents for 2016 and 2015? You are looking for the rent roll and historical performance. When a listing agent puts together a “pro forma” analysis of the property, this is a picture of the possibilities if all things were perfect. The reality isn’t pro forma so you’ll need to have real data and understand gaps in rental income.

What are the actual expenses for 2016 and 2015? Just like rental income, expenses can also be represented in a scenario where all things work out exactly as you had hoped. Having the actual expenses will enable you to determine either opportunities where you think you can improve or big “gotchas” that will eat into your profitability.

Before continuing on, what are your thoughts on the property so far? And, what would you do next?

Post: San Francisco Bay Summit - Oct 7 & 8, 2017 - Join the Reunion!

Nichole Stohler
Posted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Scottsdale, AZ
  • Posts 115
  • Votes 136

@Dave Van Horn, thanks for the tag!   This wouldn't have come across my radar otherwise.    Speaker line up looks great and I'll try to make it.  

Post: Should I invest in a 4-plex in Arizona?

Nichole Stohler
Posted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Scottsdale, AZ
  • Posts 115
  • Votes 136

@Aria Jackson,  property management experience is a great foundation!  My husband worked for a large property management firm handling large 400-600 unit complexes.   Operational experience like this will help you maximize profit and if you do you use a property management firm for non-local properties you'll be better equipped to negotiate the contract.    

Sounds like the next step for you is analyzing properties to see if the numbers work and if it's a good fit?

Post: Journey to $5M with Multi-Units: FAQ

Nichole Stohler
Posted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Scottsdale, AZ
  • Posts 115
  • Votes 136

@Aaron Moore, happy to help!