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All Forum Posts by: Nichole Stohler

Nichole Stohler has started 8 posts and replied 112 times.

Post: Journey to $5M with Multi-Units: FAQ

Nichole Stohler
Posted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Scottsdale, AZ
  • Posts 115
  • Votes 136

Wait…. Back up. How do you decide which markets?

Recently a BiggerPockets member asked me about broader market research in order to narrow down areas of the country that would be good areas to invest. This person said “I understand the local research but how do you decide where to focus before you get to this point?”

This is a great question.  Let’s dig into criteria to think about and some ideas to explore.

Management from a distance?

With your first couple of multifamily properties will you be self-managing, using a property manager or implementing some type of hybrid approach?

For this analysis, we’ll say that you have decided to use a property manager. Logistics to think about include how often do you plan to visit in order to build your local network and relationships? Once you own property, what time commitment will you be making to check on things in-person? How will travel (in whatever frequency) impact your schedule? Will you have to take time off work? Can you visit by day trips or overnight stays? What are the costs involved between airfare, hotel and meals? Ultimately, how does the location impact your profitability and ability to support the property?

I have a friend who just bought his first property out of state after spending close to a year trying to find something that fit his budget and situation. Frustrated with options where he lives in Arizona, he started looking at Missouri and Florida. Why those two? By considering the questions above, his thought process was:

  • Where do I already travel as part of my job that I could take an extra day to establish local relationships and check in on a property? Missouri
  • Where do I like to travel for fun that I would want to take time off for? Florida
  • Where have I’ve lived before and still know some people? Florida
  • Where can I purchase a property in my budget and return criteria? Both states

Because he and his family really liked traveling to Florida and he knew (non-real estate) people he could ask for help he felt comfortable buying his first property in this state.

Where is it easier to be a landlord?

If you are able to choose any market from the beginning, make it easier on yourself and add landlord friendly states to the top of the list. Why does that matter? Well... have you heard the stories of evictions that took months? Tenants that violated their leases but still stayed in the property?

Choose the right state, and your rights as a landlord will enable you to quickly remove bad tenants, recoup damages and reduce loss of income.

If you do a simple Google search on “landlord friendly states” and you’ll find many articles on BiggerPockets and a variety of other sites.

Economics

At this point, you can gather various sources of economic data to understand the trends in various markets. Some data to look for includes job growth, resident growth and new multi-unit construction trends which can saturate the market, increase vacancy rates and take time to absorb.

Some example resources include:

  • Commercial real estate brokerage reports (such as Marcus & Milichap’s MFH outlook)
  • United States conference of Mayors economic trends
  • Joint Economic Committee’s State-By-State reports
  • Compare50 website
  • FreddieMac’s multifamily outlook which includes this recent table:

Something to think about...since you make your money when you buy, do you want to purchase property in a market that is hot right now? Or, would it be better to find an area that has some kind of temporary decline?

Types of questions to consider could include:

  • What is this area’s future opportunity for growth?  Are there cyclical industries that can rise and fall (oil, tourism, transportation, etc.)
  • What resources does the area have that are always in demand?  Desirable weather? Beaches? Mountains for skiing?
  • Am I interested in cash flow or appreciation? Or both? All markets can have strong cash flow if you buy right. Conversely, markets with more desirable features or significant job growth will have higher appreciation.

Getting Local

Once you’ve narrowed down potential areas, you can now start establishing relationships and work to understand more of the market details. How? Here’s some ideas:

  • Use the BiggerPockets search to find potential local team members including wholesalers, agents and mortgage professionals. Connect, start to develop relationships and schedule in-person meetings.
  • Schedule your trip so you can also attend local real estate club meetings. You are looking to hear about market updates, trends and then also meet fellow investors.
  • Spend time driving the areas you are looking at so you can get a feel for neighborhoods and the places you are more interested in investing.
  • Keep a regular activity schedule of fostering the relationships you’ve established, looking at properties remotely and in-person and making offers.

For those that have invested outside of your primary residence, would love to hear your thoughts. What criteria did you use to decide where to invest?  

Post: Invest in duplex/SFR first before jumping to CRE?

Nichole Stohler
Posted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Scottsdale, AZ
  • Posts 115
  • Votes 136

@Larry Tran, agree with feedback from others here.   A smaller property will give you experience and help you build your "resume" and can also help in in securing commercial loans.   There's a lot of "you don't know what you don't know" until you get into the first property.   On a smaller scale, those lessons don't have to be as costly...

Building relationships will help as @Ben Wilkins recommends.   We found a great Commercial Broker for our first 4-plex who helped us develop a network of the broader team needed to help with the various aspects of owning a property.  

@Gay Lloyd, your story is similar to ours as we are in hotels now too.   I haven't found that many people in hotels on BiggerPockets and would love to hear more about what you are doing with syndication.   Will send you a pm -

Post: Journey to $5M with Multi-Units: FAQ

Nichole Stohler
Posted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Scottsdale, AZ
  • Posts 115
  • Votes 136

Pro Forma Dreams vs. Actual Reality

For our case study property we don’t have the actuals to get into real numbers but after looking at the information available right now, I would not recommend going further with this property. The key reason is that you make money when you buy and there are not many opportunities to increase profitability in the case study example due to:

  • HOA costs are a huge expense that cannot be improved
  • Rents are very close to market rates already
  • There are no other ways to generate income

I mentioned in the property analysis video that there are spreadsheets you can use for the analysis in addition to the tools on BiggerPockets. The one we use is from the CCIM Institute (http://www.ccim.com/) which is an organization for Commercial Real Estate. Agents that have the Certified Commercial Investment Member (CCIM) designation have taken several classes in areas such as financial, investment and market analysis, created a portfolio documenting their experience and passed a final exam. You can find similar tools online, in some of the BiggerPockets forums.

Since we won’t be spending any more time on the case study property, let's use another property to show an example of how the pro-forma numbers looked good but the actuals tell a different story. This is a commercial property that we were looking to purchase and while it’s not multi-family, it’s a good example of why real numbers are a critical part of your due diligence. 

Here’s what the numbers looked like with pro forma:

Here are the actual numbers for 2016:

Immediate red flags:

  1. Revenue. Projected in the pro forma at $356,520 but in 2016 total revenue was only $196,006.44. Why does the pro forma have an increase of $164,000? Was their a 40% vacancy rate in 2016? Is there that much opportunity to increase rents? After doing due diligence on current rents and the market, the answer is “no”.
  1. Expenses. The pro forma only showed fixed expenses and the management fee. This particular property has a lease from the city which was listed at $115,632 on the pro forma. Actual for 2016 was $155,668.32. In this particular situation, you can think of the fee like an HOA -- it's not going to go down and more than likely would go up. Why would the pro forma assume otherwise?

We used the information to explain back to the seller what the price would need to be for us to move forward.  The seller chose not to accept the new amount so we are passing on this property for now.

Post: San Francisco Bay Summit - Oct 7 & 8, 2017 - Join the Reunion!

Nichole Stohler
Posted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Scottsdale, AZ
  • Posts 115
  • Votes 136

Mike and I are in!   Looking forward to an awesome event and meeting everyone!

Post: Journey to $5M with Multi-Units: FAQ

Nichole Stohler
Posted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Scottsdale, AZ
  • Posts 115
  • Votes 136

@Randy K., thank you for sharing your system for how you automate market research!   

Post: Joyous June in Arizona

Nichole Stohler
Posted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Scottsdale, AZ
  • Posts 115
  • Votes 136

@Shiloh Lundahl, congrats on an awesome month!   Quick question ... since you do both immediate sales and also lease options with the properties you've rehabbed, what criteria do you use to determine which strategy you'll use?

Post: How to analyze Real Estate markets?

Nichole Stohler
Posted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Scottsdale, AZ
  • Posts 115
  • Votes 136

@Shon Butani,  good question and I can relate to where you are coming from -- especially just starting out.   You mention analyzing the local real estate market but I wasn't sure if you meant your market or other local markets to know where to invest?   Also, what types of properties?

A few ideas on sources for research can include local real estate investment clubs, universities that conduct real estate research and real estate brokers that work with investors.   I included a post on this relating to multi-family recently if you want to check it out on page 2:

https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/12/topics/455...

Post: Part-time Real Estate Careers

Nichole Stohler
Posted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Scottsdale, AZ
  • Posts 115
  • Votes 136

@Michael Peralta, great question.  A few that come to mind include becoming a realtor, working for a property manager part-time or even working for a real estate agent part time.  Have you checked into any of these?

Post: Journey to $5M with Multi-Units: FAQ

Nichole Stohler
Posted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Scottsdale, AZ
  • Posts 115
  • Votes 136

Quick follow up on market trends...  most of the local real estate investment clubs provide a regular market update during their meetings.   In Arizona, I've found these are more focused on the residential segment but the information is still incredibly valuable.   Other trends that are covered include employment, new resident numbers and infrastructure projects that impact housing.    Definitely recommend you check these clubs out! 

Two other areas for getting market data include local universities and commercial brokers.  As an example, Arizona State University publishes research reports under their Real Estate program.   If you pulled down the "commercial brokers forum survey" you'd see that in the multi-family market, brokers are also talking about how hot the market is right now.  https://research.wpcarey.asu.edu/real-estate/

If the local commercial brokers in your market have an email list for market trends, this is a helpful source of information too.   We're on a couple of weekly updates showing sales data and general trends.  On a national level, Marcus & Millichap provides a nationwide investment forecast report by segment.   The 2017 multi-family provides detail for each major market in the areas of employment growth, vacancy rates, construction of new units and rent trends.   A couple of examples that I randomly pulled directly from this report:

Minneapolis- St. Paul - "Steady hiring, moderate apartment construction align to restrain vacancy. "  "Robust demand for apartments is boosting rents.  Effective rent will climb an average of 5.0 percent"

Kansas City - "Positive demand still intact but falling short of development pipeline".   Paraphrasing the Kansas City analysis, the completions of new units will rise in 2017 which are predicted to cause the vacancy rate to go up to a six-year high.  

As a landlord, where do you want to own property?  As a buyer, where would you want to buy property?

Post: Journey to $5M with Multi-Units: FAQ

Nichole Stohler
Posted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Scottsdale, AZ
  • Posts 115
  • Votes 136

@Dan Turkel, so glad to hear the information is useful!    Looking to make sure the content is as step-by-step as possible.  Will send you a quick PM -