All Forum Posts by: Russell Holmes

@Gabriel Escamilla I used Real Estate Express as well.  I was running another business at the time so class room type just wouldn't work for me.  I'm in a different state and this was back at the end of 2017 so I'm sure packages vary.  I bought one deal that was the pre-license (63 hrs in FL), post-license (45 hrs...I think), and it came with a free exam prep package. I actually think it was a black friday sale they had.

  The material was pretty dry as expected, but they did have recorded sections to break up the written parts.  The exam prep was basically 1500+ exam questions. After I passed the course final I took some time to go through the practice exams and re-study anything I wasn't totally clear on.  I believe my state test was 100 questions, and the prep was broken up into several 50-question exams and then 5-6 100-question tests.  Each would be blind (no feedback on score until the end) and you could retake them.  I spent a few weeks taking and retaking all of those, going back to study what I was struggling with until I felt I had a grasp of it all.  I passed my state exam on the first try, but to my dismay they only share your score if you fail.  So I have no idea if I barely passed or aced every question.

I have known a few "lifelong renters" who have never and will never own a home. They make enough money to have bought something modest years ago, but they "ain't rich" so they "have to rent". Forget low down owner occupied loans or for heaven's sake saving some money over time, no time to bother themselves with that nonsense. That paycheck to paycheck hustle is strong.... Several times in passing I've heard people mention how much their landlord "makes" as the collective total of rent paid. $1,000/mo means their landlord makes $12k per year "from them". When asked "what about expenses?" They'll laugh and assure me they pay the utility bills so there are none for the landlord.....ugh. I honestly think there's a large portion of the renter population who, having never planned to buy a home, have never once considered what goes into owning one. Property taxes, insurance, reserves, maintenance costs are all foreign concepts. Apartment syndication, commercial loans, 1031 exchange might as well be quantum physics. When something breaks, they feel the landlord should simply peel a few hundreds off the stack of gross rents and still be rolling in money. Of course they don't assume part of their rent is set aside in advance for that, they don't plan ahead why would a landlord? I once even got into an infuriating back and forth on a local Facebook group to a homeowner who claimed renters were ruining the city because they don't pay property tax. Like it's a free pass. Myself and a few other folks with common sense explained that property tax, maintenance, etc etc ARE included in rent and paid by the owner. If there's an HOA, the owner is held to the bylaws same as everyone. They just weren't grasping the concept...at all. Beyond all of those hard costs that any homeowner would grasp, I don't think many renters consider that most investment properties carry leverage of some kind. They think all landlords plop down their stack of cash (from other gross rents of course, not prior good financial choices) and buy every property outright. It's the us vs them rich/poor concept that keeps so many people from even considering anything beyond hourly work. Which circles back to the concept that gross rent = gross profit, period. I like some of the eloquent responses and may try them, but I think oftentimes renters are renters because they have never once considered what goes into owning a property since they don't have any interest in doing so. I think I'd try to educate them a little and then simply move along :)

Also to @Parker Eberhard's point on cutting a hole in an exterior wall, even if you are the homeowner and can pull the permits yourself legally, please consult a structural engineer or at least a licensed contractor before cutting into what could be a load bearing wall. Adding walls is never a structural issue, but removing all or part of a wall definitely can be. Depending on how accessible the attic and other framing is, a contractor may be able to tell if it's load bearing or not.   Failing the framing inspection could be too late to prevent damage if you chop through something important.  Same goes for knocking out interior walls to open up a kitchen or dining room.  You may not necessarily need to pull a permit for those types of things, but you definitely want to know the wall you're about to blow through isn't holding the roof up! A couple hundred dollars spent on an engineer to take a look is money very well spent and can save a fortune or at least buy peace of mind.

I have a client finishing up a rehab on a mid century home in town where the county was wanting him to completely rip off about a third of the roof, after the new permitted re-roof.  The inspector was overreacting and was not an engineer, but neither is my client or myself (or his GC for that matter).  Before spending $20k on that demo and rebuild, my client spent $500 on a structural engineer as a second opinion.  The engineer was able to tell that with some reinforcement and proper bracing, it could all be brought to code without demo.  $1500 in calculations and plans and about $1000 in brackets, doubled lumber, and screws/nails saved from spending $20k.  When the structural engineer signs off to say its good, the county has to accept that.   When in doubt, hire a structural engineer!  

@Jerel Davis unless you pull permits for the bathroom conversion and shed 'conversion' into living space, neither will increase the appraisal and may, in fact, pose issues in the future if you go to sell (or even refi). Some states hide their permits and property records to where you have to go in person to seek them out so it is a little harder to tell.  Other states demand permits for all sorts of finite details like flooring and drywall.  In Florida, at least the counties I operate in, permits are easily accessible online public record. There are a lot of interior changes that can be done without raising red flags without permits: flooring, enclosing a dining room or other interior space into a bedroom, building closets, changing out cabinets and fixtures, etc. None of that changes the important data on what is and isn't 'permitted'. Property records here don't have the exact interior wall layout, they don't specify where sinks and toilets are, but they do have perimeter, number of bathrooms, fixture count, etc.  Bedroom count is on the records, but it is often wrong and not a big deal. I doubt going from a single to a double vanity would raise alarm with many since they can be worked off of one supply and drain out of the wall. I bought a 4/2 house from a builder in 2009 that was recorded as a 3/2.  No big deal, square footage and bathroom count is right.  

 However, the property appraisers website can tell me or anyone curious in about 2 minutes how many square feet the home has (including the footprint sketch with measurements of perimeter), and bathroom count (including full or half), and those are very rarely, if ever, wrong. It'll also show footprint dimensions for non-interior space like garages, carports, sheds, etc. and label what they are.  When those spaces are properly permitted to be living space, they then appear as 'finished' spaces and are reflected in the 'heated' or 'living' square footage.  It's one of the first things I check on any potential house for a buyer and also part of my due diligence before listing a property. A nicely insulated porch is still a porch if property records calls it a porch. Those same records will show important things like re-roof date, new windows, HVAC (usually...not as big of a deal if not permitted), etc.  They are also the first piece of info that an appraiser pulls before coming out to the house to appraise.  They measure and compare to the official footprint.

If you make the laundry room into a bathroom without a permit and add 100 square feet in the shed, even if all is done 'to code' with insulation, HVAC, weather protection, it won't officially count without a permit being pulled. If you live in the house as your primary residence, in FL at least, you can pull your own permit as the homeowner.  You can do the work yourself as an unlicensed homeowner and if it passes final inspection, all is good.  If it's not your primary residence, you need a licensed contractor to pull the permits.  The shed may show on permit records as 'unfinished storage'...maybe, but you'll need that to be 'living space' or 'finished storage' to count, and that is done through obtaining a permit and passing final inspection.

I'm finishing up a JV flip of a 1319sf 3/1 house that we turned into a 3/1.5. Adding a second full bath would have been exponentially more expensive due to floor plan limitations and space needed for a shower or tub. There was a garage conversion into living space that was permitted, so it was officially included in 'interior space' when we bought it. In the front end of this converted garage was about a 15' x 5' laundry....space. I won't call it a room since it was just open to the living area that was once garage. Washer/dryer/water heater used to simply be at the front of the garage and they left them there when enclosing to living space. We had our GC pull the proper permits to carve out a 5' x 5' half bathroom on one side of that space and do the plumbing work to move the washer, dryer, and water heater down to the other end of the space closer together and enclosed into a proper laundry room. No walls taken out, but some added with doors to split the two spaces and make entry doors to each. It's a tight fit, but everything fits and now shows on property records as a 3/1.5 house of the same square footage as before since this was already interior space. From the property appraiser site you can even link to the plans of the layout of the new half bath and new laundry room that were submitted to get the permits. Physically speaking, it was a 'simple' slab cut to tie into the drain lines and access plumbing supply lines from an adjacent bathroom a few feet away, and some walls/doors to finish it off. What the GC called 'simple' the county put us through the ringer for. GC's sketch wasn't good enough so we needed an architect to draw a plan....for a half bathroom that in no way compromised structure and was already going to have all the trades pulling permits and having inspections. So we had to hire an architect for that. On the slab cut for new plumbing drain lines, which was maybe only 5 square feet of slab cut away, nowhere near the footers, exterior walls, or any structural elements, they not only had to inspect the new drain pipes in the ground as expected but then also to inspect for termite treatment (totally ridiculous), rebar (in a slab with no existing rebar), vapor barrier, and then the final pour. Even our contractor was shocked at how ridiculous they were being over a very straightforward half bathroom involving no removal of structural elements. It added some unexpected cost but also several extra weeks in delay to what was supposed to be 'simple'.

It's not that it can't be done, but the process involves much more than just knowing how to do some plumbing and drywall in order to get it to 'count' for the value. After this experience, we're going to put a priority on finding houses with a second bathroom already in them.  Given two houses, both at 1250sf, one a 2/2 and the other a 3/1, I'd now much much prefer the 2/2 since even I could personally frame and drywall a third bedroom without anyone knowing or caring.  That added half bath was a b*tch!

@Aaron Rowzee some good info has been shared here.  Like Charlie mentioned your mentor will be your go-to in figuring out the EXP specifics and helping to tailor a plan to you. However, like (the other) Russell said, it truly works best as a full time agent and making that leap is anything but easy (at least for me it wasn't).  I still don't know if I made the jump at the 'right' time, but I also should have done it sooner in a sense.  When I got licensed in February '18, I was burning the candle at both ends.  I was running a service business I had started in 2007 and was working 8-12 hour days 6-7 days a week.  My story might be different since I was my own boss and made my own hours, but that's a double edged sword.

  I carved out a few afternoons and weekends that I'd work lighter so that I had some time to devote to real estate. I gave up on getting the amount of sleep I used to and would plug in to both EXP material and BP forums until 2-3am every night, waking up at 6:30-7 the next day to get kids off to school and go to work. I'd sweat working physically in the morning, come home to shower and change, and show properties for a few hours in the afternoon.  I had the benefit of being able to drop whatever I was doing during the day to answer or return calls, emails, etc.  Without that I don't know how I would have managed doing both. Real Estate clients didn't know I had another business and all my service business clients knew I was starting my RE journey. I sort of played to the advantage of both as much as I could.

  I was lucky enough to be placed with a mentor that was an independent broker before joining EXP (and has since left to go Independent again) who was great at helping new agents figure out what worked for them, not just with the brokerage, but with the business in general.  I hustled hard for 9 months before I sold a house.  Lots of showings of the wrong types of properties, sometimes to the wrong people while still putting in 50-60+ hour work weeks, it was downright grueling.  Lots of weak offers submitted that I learned from.  From February to late November 2018 I learned a ton and sold nothing.  Then I sold one in late November and one in December.  Hustled some more, more offers, more service business hours, and sold a third in April of this year that was a larger commission than the two before it combined and was more than I made in a month of my service business.  I mentally 'allowed myself' to buy out 1-2 days per week to not work in my service business at all (with a lot of encouragement from my wife to do so!), and that was the 'beginning of the end' of my commitment to that business. I sold another in May and it was driving me nuts to keep working my service business so I initiated my exit. I felt that by working in my service business it was costing me more future dollars in RE than what I was making in labor.  I decided to close up shop and jump in with both feet in June since it took me a month to 'wrap up' final appointments for all my regulars. I still get calls and texts from old customers begging me to open back up which I politely decline and remind them I'm available for their RE needs.  I sold two more in July, one in August, one in September, and just closed my 9th in October. So far it's been 3 listing sides and the rest buyer (one double ended).  It'll even out some more with the next few listings in escrow and on market.  I'm still scraping by financially as I build more momentum, but I did what I had to do, I couldn't work for service business and put in the time I felt I needed to put into Real Estate. 

I've got two listings in escrow to close in November and Early December, one being my largest transaction yet. I have active buyers, a nearly completed rehab for a client listed and a JV flip I've been working on with a cash partner I met through BP that is ready to list this week, plus a house on acreage for my in-laws to list soon. It's all about keeping the pipeline full and doing what it takes, which is a lot of time input on the front end to get closings coming out the back side months later. I know my point of needing to jump in with both feet came before I had a conservative savings built up. I've always done things bass ackwards and figured it out once I'm neck deep, its just sort of the way I'm wired :). I set a goal at my first closing to sell 12 properties in 12 months and I'm just about there, which is pretty good for being part time for the first six months of that. After these next two close I'll have sold about $2.5 million in property, not huge but not insignificant either. I'll double it to 24 sales and $5-6mil as a goal over the next 12 months with a couple flips and BRRRRs in the mix, now that I've got my feet wet there as well. If I were still working my service business I likely would have missed out on the vast majority of this year's sales and I know I wouldn't be able to show properties to my active buyers as quickly as I do now. I was also always worried I'd miss an important contract date or deadline while doing both so I'd set redundant reminders in my calendar to remind me for days before something important. It's much easier now that I've let go of the old business. I'm still building momentum and I'm not where I want to be yet, but I'm just getting started still.

There's nothing wrong with starting part time while you learn, it is definitely drinking from a fire hose to start. There will definitely come a point where you feel the need to make the leap, and it likely will have to be before you've built the stable transaction volume since it takes full time effort to do so.  The best advice I got early on from my mentor was to avoid paid 'marketing' and coaching services like the plague since they'll suck you dry, and to focus on only 2-3 marketing strategies that work well with your personality.  She explained it like spokes on a wheel.  There are likely 50-100 different methods that successful Realtors use to get leads, but most successful Realtors get all of their business from focusing on 2-3 of those, maybe 4-5 max. I don't know Russell Brazil personally, but I bet as a top agent he could count on one hand the lead gen methods he uses and rocks at. And they may be completely different from another top agent who is equally successful.  Take some time to explore different avenues, but don't feel that you have to master them all.  A wheel with 1 spoke doesn't work very well, but you also don't need 100.  After taking some time to learn some different approaches you can use, pick 3 that seem to fit your personality and scheduling abilities.  Focus on getting good at those three. Things like cold calling work great for some, but felt like total hell to me.  I'm much more of a networking and people person than I am a phone sales guy.  But I know a phone sales type that almost exclusively cold calls and sold 19 properties his first year.  

Try not to get overwhelmed, but keep an open mind to adapting the business to your personality and your schedule to the business! 

@Dawn Heisler Northwest Orange and Northern Lake County in the Northwest 'quadrant' of the greater Orlando Area is seeing some impressive growth. Apopka, Eustis, Mt. Dora, Sorrento, Mt. Plymouth, and Umatilla are all seeing lots of development from national builders and in-fill from smaller builders and investors. I don't recall the exact stats, but it either already is, or is close to outpacing Orange County growth. The majority of my buyers over the last year have sold homes or ended leases in Orange County to buy homes in Lake County.

 The Wekiva Parkway toll project has brought infrastructure and easy commuting to the area that has been lacking for decades.   Once the current Wekiva Parkway leg finishes, it'll be a direct bypass from I-4 / SR-417 in Sanford around through Lake County and down to Disney, bypassing all the horrendous I-4 traffic through Orlando.  All but the East/West leg from Mt. Dora to Lake Mary/Sanford is done (that should be completed in 2021 I believe), so folks have a straight toll road shot from Lake County down into Orlando, Maitland, etc.   Of all the areas, I think Umatilla is the most 'undiscovered' at the moment since it's the furthest North and still quite rural.   Umatilla residents are a bit too far out to easily commute to Orlando, but there is employment in Eustis and Mt. Dora as they see growth as well.  There are plans to extend a western leg of the Wekiva Parkway, SR-453, to the northwest into Ocala to connect with I-75, which will truly put Umatilla "on the map".  

The long time residents are complaining, but investors from all over are making moves to prepare. In a town of less than 4000 people as of 2017, there are roughly 800 new homes approved to be built or in progress.  I've talked to a handful of folks from South Florida who picked up 10-50 acres in Umatilla during the recession and are simply holding until the infrastructure is there. I wouldn't necessarily try to flip a house in Umatilla, but buying to hold 3-5 years or more would be bound to ride some growth.  My inlaws bought 10 acres (vacant, 6.5 or so are dry and buildable) in Umatilla in 2015 for $69k and could sell it for $200k now.  A year later (2016) they bought a 1900sf home on 14.35 acres (all high and dry/buildable) for $200k and are preparing to list it for $425k.  Land prices have skyrocketed from under $10k per acre to $20-25k per acre, which is still drastically lower than anywhere close to Orlando.

Here's a write up I did on Apopka (NW Orange County) earlier in the year that gives the longer version of growth that I feel starts in Apopka and spreads Northwest 

https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/48/topics/671606-apopka-fl-is-a-town-to-keep-on-your-radarheres-why?highlight_post=4474648&page=1#p4474648

It may not be THE BEST market in FL, I can't speak for markets I don't know, but it's got all the signs of stable and solid growth for years to come.

@Bob O'Neill my biggest issue with this offer would be the total lack of EMD, not even $1,000? They've got nothing on the line if they don't list their home, don't price aggressively, etc. They'll let it fall through and then what do you get to hold them accountable or reimburse you for time off market? Same offer with $5k EMD would be much stronger, they'd have $5k in escrow encouraging them to list their house.

My second biggest issue would be that their home isn't even listed yet?!?! If I were their agent I wouldn't have submitted that offer as I don't feel there is any 'proof of funds' yet. With the $11k concession it sounds like they don't want to bring anything to the table either meaning their net from sale of theirs may be very small or just break even, which in my mind shows that maybe they can't price as aggressively as they claim.

I'm sure it is market by market, but in my market, contingent offers are only really considered if their home is under contract and well along in that escrow period. In general they are still the weakest of all offers. I've had multiple sellers turn down otherwise strong offers because they are contingent on sale, selling to more qualified buyers ready to buy. I had a seller looking to downsize with no mortgage take out a HELOC on that home to make cash offers on the next, and even still we offered on 4 or 5 before getting one (not investors/hot deals, just regular homeowners/regular homes). Then at sale of the first, the HELOC was paid off, only costing them the interest on the HELOC for a few months and they were back to no mortgage. A contingent-on-sale offer would be weak even if they were freshly under contract but their buyers hadn't passed the inspection period. Past the inspection contingency, multiple things could still happen, but that is the biggest hurdle. Not even having listed it yet at all while trying to make an offer contingent on the sale is putting the cart way ahead of the horse, so to speak. What if they get an offer contingent on sale as well, then you're depending on two different homes to sell.... Maybe if they had a pre-listing appraisal done and showed you listing docs that they were going to hit the market XX/XX/2019 listed for under appraised value....maybe. But with how tight money sounds, I doubt they've paid for a pre-listing appraisal.

Seller concessions aren't inherently bad, especially without knowing whether the home is overpriced or in a slower market. $11,000 won't affect your commissions paid by too much, taxes to a greater extent but not incredibly. One thing to consider in addition to paying commissions and taxes based on $190k is that the home will also have to appraise for $190k, not $179k.  If the buyers agent and your agent are so pushy for you to accept this, ask them to concede some of their commission toward the credit.  They might, but chances are you'll see a different tone come over them.  I've got one in escrow now that the buyers came back after getting it under contract below list to ask if we could raise it up closer to list by their closing cost amount to get it back as credit. Closing costs (private funding, no lender fees) were just under $6k on about $420k, so we upped it by that amount since I know it'll appraise there. Seller will be out a few hundred more in commissions but otherwise it's basically the same. However, even if all else goes well on yours, an appraisal at $185k could blow the deal apart unless they'd drop their credit by $5k instead of needing the full $11k bringing you down to $174k.

I recently closed with buyers on a rehabbed home in an up and coming part of town where rehabbed comps get multiple offers but are still few and far between to support values. It's counter intuitive when multiple buyers wish to pay a price that appraisers can't find in comps since true market value, at it's core, is what a buyer is willing to pay. But that 'will' isn't data based, so appraisers need comps. This one was Listed at $189k and we offered $200k with a $5k buyer credit/seller concession. Agent/Owner/Seller was a friend of mine so we had open lines of communication to construct an acceptable offer. He was concerned that it may not appraise at $200k and mentioned he had other offers with no concessions close to the effective price ($195k) so he didn't want to accept ours with credit if a lower appraisal would push his effective price down or kill the deal. To strengthen the offer we stated that any shortage of appraisal up to $5k would be reduced from both purchase price and closing credit, keeping the seller at $195k. Appraisal came in at $195k killing my buyer's credit initially but I was able to point out missed details on the report and dispute it through the lender which raised appraisal up to $201k. Had it stuck at $195k there'd have been no credit and seller would have made out about the same (little less commission and taxes paid). Buyer could have made that happen, so it was possible. It doesn't sound like your buyers could make it happen without the credit. If you found yourself in this scenario of a low appraisal, it may not come to fruition for a couple months since their lender likely wouldn't order the appraisal until they knew the buyers were ready to close, and you'd be off market with no EMD securing your interests the whole time. A lender would have to chime in with actual guidelines, but in my experience FHA doesn't want to appraise further out than 45-60 days from closing max.

There are red flags all over their offer, but not knowing the other details it's hard to say 'hard pass'. I always try to find a way to make things work and have often pulled together a deal when the initial offer was awful. I've often found that there is some common ground on offers that are initially terrible. Dig through the details and see what you can find out before deciding whether to counter and if so, how. Find out the value of their home, what they plan to list for, how much equity they have, how solid their financing is, their pre-approval amount, etc. A lot of times your list agent can have a conversation with the buyers agent about concerns and see what you can come up with. You could realistically be better off passing on their offer and dropping your list price to $185k. But maybe they'd go for $195,000 with $11k credit and could scrape together a $1500-2000 EMD.....if you felt it would appraise over list. Or keep it at $190k and drop the credit down to $6k etc. Lots of moving pieces to where it could work with some changes, but on the surface, the initial weak offer sucks in my opinion. Even if you do reject it completely, you could let them know that if they get theirs listed and under contract, to reach back out if yours is still available.

With all that being said, if you're getting other more traditional offers, by all means consider those!! :)

@Dustin Lauer I think you may have been the one from FidusFi that I met at a post-Dorian walk-through of my listing on Hart Blvd in Orlando closed back in September.  You were at least on the email thread for that one and I don't think it was Jon that came out.  I wasn't involved in the buyers/funding side of that one, but I've shared with others much of what we discussed regarding your different product offerings, hard money-to-long term, etc.  It would be great to have you out to a meetup, you guys really have some great funding strategies on tap and I'm sure quite a few folks there would be interested in discussing what you have to offer. 

@Hilary Stalder the next one will be November 2nd! First Saturday of every month.  The next one is going to be focused on the topic of Opportunity Zones....which I keep hearing about but only have a limited understanding of.  Definitely looking forward to it!  We usually all get there around 9:00 and network/chat for a half hour or so before getting settled in for the guest speaker.  It's growing quite well but still a small enough group for a casual and comfortable feeling where everyone feels they can participate, ask questions, and grow.  I may be the messenger who linked it in this thread, but the true thanks goes to @Shawn G. and @Bernadeau C. who are the pioneers/managers/concierge/planners/strategists of the Central Florida Real Estate Investment Hub group!  It wouldn't be what it is without their efforts.  Less than two years ago it was a group of 8-10 folks meeting at local eateries.

@Natasha Dillon I agree with Robbie, Mount Dora is a great area, and I'd expand your search area to include more of northern Lake Co as well. 

Values are below that of Orlando proper, but rents are getting very close to the same as more infrastructure and growth come. Areas such as Eustis, Umatilla, Sorrento, Mt. Plymouth are also on the grow. Including a two of the BP members you've tagged, I had three buyers in under 60 days make the move from more central Orange County to North Lake County (Leesburg, Eustis, and Mt. Dora). It's a small sampling, but is evidence of the trend toward Lake County growth.  Not to leave out another really hot market, Clermont is growing by leaps and bounds.  I don't really focus on that market as much, but if someone else does feel free to chime in.  Everything I hear about Clermont is positive as well.

Downtown Mt. Dora is a great year-round Airbnb market as long as you're within the main downtown district. There are several historic blocks with brick roads and older buildings with an awesome lakefront dining/entertainment. There are boat rides off the dock through canals, almost weekly festivals, biker events, art shows, etc: Downtown Mt. Dora events

Even on the off weeks snowbirds come down for weeks at a time. Most homes West of 441 and within about 1.5-2 miles of Donnelly St and W 5th Ave have great AirBnb/STR potential as well as being quiet streets to live on full time. Under a mile is premium since it's considered walking distance. 1-2 miles is biking distance and fills up still due to procrastinators who miss the walking distance STRs. Due to this STR demand and the incredibly desirable homes for owner occupants, prices in this area tend to rule out cash flow to 'normal' long term tenants. Outside of that 'hot' area, STR demand would taper off, but across all of the previously mentioned areas, long term rentals are still in plenty of demand. For single family, there are definitely some blocks here and there that you'd be the risky pioneer making the first rehab move, but if you're looking for 30+ unit multis, rehabbing one of those WOULD be neighborhood-changing itself regardless of neighboring properties, so being the 'pioneer' to do so isn't as big of a risk in a sense.

  I know the area very well, focusing the majority of my efforts in Northwest Orange and Northern Lake Counties, but my expertise as a Realtor ends around the 4-unit point. There is some newly-overlaid R-6 zoning (6 units per acre, some ways to increase to 7 per acre through a process) applied to some of Mt. Plymouth area which was previously single family.   Existing multis larger than an occasional duplex or quad are pretty rare in the area since it had previously been pretty rural, but some of the larger R-6 lots could be perfect for a larger multi build.   If looking for existing 30+ unit in Central Florida, I'd honestly suggest broadening your search and exploring each area that a potential deal pops up. Larger multis are much more rare to hit the market, so a larger search is helpful since something in Lakeland or New Smyrna Beach could come on the market with phenomenal numbers you'd miss if sticking to Orlando.  There are a lot of desirable areas with good market rent numbers in Central Florida where a multi could make sense. In the single family realm, I get to be a little more picky on focusing in tighter areas.

  @Kim Meredith Hampton is definitely the go-to broker for medium to large scale multifamily acquisition and property management once you acquire.  She and her husband run Hampton & Hampton offering both brokerage and property management divisions.  Every time I've spoken with Kim she's been on the way to or from a large multi somewhere within a 200 mile radius of Orlando, finding deals all over the state.  I believe they cover 11 counties and have great systems for scale in place.