All Forum Posts by: Sabrina Brown

I have been to a few wholesale classes and was taught a few "tricks".  Many of these people trying to get into wholesaling are bird dogs.  If the inspection period says 7 days and it expired, you are off the hook, no matter what.  I don't know what his contract states but usually it is written in very simple language.  If A is not fulfilled by X date, then B happens (i.e. end of contract).  Wholesalers will go through their buyers list and still look for other avenues to sell your house quickly.  I think at this point it doesn't matter if they are licensed or professional.  They can assign the deal to someone else if the contract states that.  Common practice.  I am not licensed, as I don't have to as an investor (and as it doesn't limit me quite as much if I was licensed), but it appears to me that this is a contract and whatever the contract says stands.  If anything is out of line, it can be a breach or the contract will end at which time either party can walk away.  Should anything go beyond these terms, they can be amended and must be signed by both parties.

Some escrow companies and realtors will take a look at it for free and tell you if it is legitimate (if you want to save money or just get an opinion from an independent party). Some real estate attorneys offer free consultations with specifics relating to the deal, not just theoretical scenarios.

On another note, what scares me is that you let all these people into your house snooping around.  I would ask them for ID and have appointments with these people set up in advance.  Too many things have already happened with female realtors letting prospects into houses or property being stolen while being inspected.  Some are thieves and pretend to be professionals and we are trusting to let them in only to find out later we have been robbed (this has happened with a neighbor in a prime area in LA where I used to live!). 

At this point you haven't lost anything (thank goodness!), just be very cautious and follow the contract to a T so nobody can come back later to say otherwise.  Put it in writing that the contract is "null and void as of x date".  You already have all your notes, which is great!

Thank you for keeping us in the loop!

@Dean Letfus yeah, I wish I had known all of this beforehand.  And if you read through my prior post, many TK providers count on out of state investors knowing that this Memphis market is unique and tough!

@Tou V.

You are so right on!  My experience has been (after a painful time of finding this out) that most tenants there don't care that if they get evicted there or move numerous times during existing rental agreements.  They don't want or need to own a home or can't own a home due to prior evictions/bad credit, etc.  They don't take good care of someone else's properties.  Even if you get a judgment against a prior tenant, they know that once you go after one employer via wage garnishment, they will just quit and move on to another.  As I mentioned a few times, this is one of the reasons I lost a lot of money.  TK providers have the best insight but yet, many providers still promote mostly to out of state investors!  TK providers "own/monopolize" certain streets/areas.  No matter how you look at it, it is the best investment for TK providers and mostly a dud for investors.  As this long thread shows, too, is that no matter what you look at, there are issues left and right.  Since these properties are not my first and only investments, they are definitely the most challenging.  

I am not a completely clueless investor, although my mistake was to trust these professionals.  Coming from Europe where money advisors and people falling into this category have the highest integrity, it just baffles me that there are no stricter rules by the government.  I actually commented on another post thread about a "$50,000 lie" and it wraps smoothly into this overall topic, too.

It is easy to see the red flags from an outsider perspective.  If TK providers had presented it to one of you posters here, it would have sounded good to you, too, and all of your online research and talking to other "professionals" would have pretty much confirmed that as well.  There is very general info online and each TK provider's website comes across as very sincere and legitimate, they may even be nice in person, on the phone, on location, etc.  What was promoted though is that these TK properties could EASILY be sold if one so desired, even sooner than 10 years because prices are stable in Memphis due to great presence of Fedex, medical industry, and many other big employers.  Nobody can predict the future but I bet that the "tricks" are being played in Memphis are nothing new there.  Of course, nobody tells you about this upfront.  The more you look at it, the more it is a scam, although some try to do some honest business in the mix.  It is almost impossible to do business in Memphis without getting screwed over at least by one company or individual at one point.  I know too many, even outside of the large group of investors that signed up with the same affiliate marketing company as me back then, that are and have been going through the same.  Once again, Tou, you are right on.  I just elaborated a tad bit more on it :-)

This is not related to this company but a few others:

Being a person who got scammed with these type of courses, too, I can say that yes, you don't know what you don't know, which is why you were joining these services.  However, when you research online about these companies, there is hardly any negative comment posted about them because there are online services you can pay (I wish I would actually know their names - maybe SEO companies?) that remove ANY NEGATIVE COMMENTS online.  They may take a day or so to catch on but eventually it is removed.  I have been told that RIPOFF is a paid site so if one gets a complaint and they pay for it, the bad post gets removed as well. 

Furthermore, some of these contracts are specific.  I read them.  I itemize them.  So if I go down line by line, I am ending up not getting the service, what is there to do?  I have made several requests to perform and made them aware of breach of contract, yet, there credit card companies or even the Federal Trade Commission isn't going to do anything about it. 

These companies have highly skilled sales people who are slick and know the psychology how to sell you on their services.  They refer you to other services that appear to not be related but later on you happen to come across a post (maybe through a Facebook recommendation or Google ad - thank you very much!  The only time I actually like it!) that connects some of these companies and individuals.  Most of them have operated under different names so this is another reason why often you cannot find anything or anything negative.  There will be other marketers calling you because maybe they sold your information.  Even if you are on the do not call list, they will still try because let's face it, as long as you don't file a lawsuit, the law actually allows them to get away with stuff.  The government is not behind you.  They want you vulnerable and controlled.  They want you exhausted and not speak up.  Unless there is a riot or anything else, nobody is going to do much about these companies that keep popping up left and right.

@Alex Craig that was indeed funny!  It reminded me of the corporate world...I am not here to get into fights even though it is very stressful dealing with this situation.  I also didn't want to disclose THIS much detail about my specific properties (only in private) but then public records were pulled up and other personal things mentioned that I had to respond to.  Heads started heating up...oh boy!  Hopefully we can all get along as adults and know where to keep the limits!

@Chris ClothierWhen looking up PremierManagement at http://www.premierpropertymemphis.com/about_us.htm... the "Clothier Family" is listed. Is this your family?  Are you "affiliated" with them? If not, why would Nate send you the details about the circumstances?  If your family does indeed own PremierManagement, I am just wondering why your company would offer someone like me to manage the property when you do NOT manage out of state investors NOR manage in the area?  I know there was a discussion about it back then and yes, they did me a favor taking over but in the end it all backfired.  I would just like to understand this.  I take responsibility for agreeing and not seeking any other professionals in Memphis because I did not know anybody else at that time.  Premier Management made good markups on the repairs, too, which I paid for so it was all squared away.

Since you asked, the increase in management fees was just one excuse for me not to renew with Premier. There were numerous issues that piled up during that time.  I don't want to list further details here to stop the going back and forth.  Other posters will just have to understand that.  I have my notes and proof and you have yours. I don't want to get into a fight because it is senseless.  It's done and over with.  

To other posters:  

My mortgage total per month is about $1,700 as interest rates were much higher back in 2010, even though I supposedly got the best rate with my excellent credit rating.  

Yes, the properties are a good investment with $1,000/month in cash flow IF I didn't have bad luck with about half the time losses spread among all 3 properties due various factors and utilizing numerous "professionals". I unfortunately didn't find out about the "bad apples" there until it was too late. Hindsight is 20/20. I would still hold onto my properties if issues didn't continue. I just don't want to be in the business of owning SFH's. I learned my lesson and got more knowledge down the road (and paying for it!).

I am/other initial investors are no longer associated or doing business with the affiliate marketing company who "kicked" all initial investors out that helped her get her business going by leading us to this initial TK provider and making good money on us. She continues to pursue beginning investors to do business with her and her company/ies. 

Just to clarify, I met with the initial TK provider in Memphis and everybody else involved.  Everyone was very nice as they all are when they want your business.  I even looked at my first property Kings Arms, which was initially rented out with a lease option tenant who then broke the agreement just after a year into it.  Things looked great in the beginning.  Now ironically, the most challenging property at Chelsea has a tenant in it who considers a lease purchase option, and my best property at Lazzini is vacant (for sale or rent - after losing yet another tenant because a repair was not completed by yet another management company I just fired last week). 

I am looking for a solution. After reading all the posts and just going by the current situation, market should pay close to what I am asking. I may have not used the proper previous 3 listing agents before (including numerous phone calls to other realtors who confirmed some of the information, whereas some were just advising to offer at a loss or walk away, which is not an option), but if I listed the properties again, isn't that just going to be a repeat of a repeat? Aren't there Memphis companies that already have buyers on waiting lists looking for certain properties such as mine? I am okay with investors wanting to buy from me, not just OO, if it is within reason (not as if my properties were distressed).

@Curt Davis  I DEEPLY APOLOGIZE for mixing you up with another person!!!  There are so many companies that even sound alike, I mixed yours up with one!  I also apologize to the other investors and want to CLEAR CURT's name with this post!  

The companies and individuals I mentioned earlier are related/affiliated with:  MemphisInvest, Premier Management, Premier Realty Group, Marathon Management, MemphisCashFlow.  There were many others I have done (costly) business with that consider themselves professionals but there are just too many to list.  I am not in the "bashing business" but since it came up, I had to clarify but don't want to cover up the experiences and truth either!  I am representing some of the other investors here that had, and still have, similar experiences and would like to get out of this game as well.

In an earlier post I read something about a "street to street" issue where one street would be monopolized (my words but this is how I interpreted it) by a TK provider whereas an adjacent street would just be a "regular sales" street.  Is this true?  If so, it makes complete sense why this "game" has been played with 3 different values as correctly pointed out before: wholesale, retail, and TK.

Based on prior posts, my asking price is not too far off from what I should be able to reasonably get the properties for.  I believe that I should still be able to get the loan amount, plus closing fees, plus a little "cushion", while the properties still generate more than enough cash flow for someone else to be able to make a profit on it.  Or am I missing something here?

For the other property, Kings Arms, there was a similar size home (over 2,400 sqft like mine) sold at 133K on the same street in November 2014.  I had listed my home at 115K at that time and it appeared that the other property also needed various upgrades.  The comps in that area are for houses with about 1,400 sqft at around 80K.  This home is for a larger size family.  Again, this property was supposed to be brought up to par when I purchased and rehabbed and it was fine for the first few tenant families that lived in it.  I put in another 11K+ just recently, which is AFTER the online pictures were taken.  I was told by realtor that it was a long rainy season and there was not much activity during that time (probably till around May). This property is off the market now since a tenant moved in just last month.  With rents being $1,000-$1,250/month, what would be a reasonable sales price taking everything under consideration?

@Curt Davis Yes, I purchased these properties through an affiliate marketer and one of the TK providers you mentioned earlier you say you find them to be a reputable company.  They were supposed to rehab the property and bring it up to par for what is adequate for the area, which now I know they didn't.  They did the bare minimum. I paid for it via refi through conventional loan at which time it had 25% equity.  The assessor's site does not include the amount of rehab I paid in addition to the original purchase price for the distressed property.  Your recommended TK provider then managed all properties. 

Chelsea Hill used to be in Section8 but this TK provider allowed the tenant to stay 3 months longer without me getting paid or getting the extended voucher approved by Section8.  I then hired your company as management company.  Your company helped me collect the Section8 but strongly advised me to take it out of Section8 in order to get higher rent (so at that time you must have thought the property was in great shape, etc. in order to collect higher rent).  Several months later, the property was still not rented out by your company.  You referred me to one of your agents to sell this property.  9 months went by and your agent did nothing and later admitting to me that he is a buyer's agent, not selling agent.  During this time, the property got vandalized and I had to have it fixed up for another 13K.  A few months later I had it boarded up again with another smaller vandalism.  I was then approached by another management company who found a tenant who would later be interested in a lease purchase option and fixing up the property for 2 months free rent (that is all that was needed and his brother is a licensed contractor).  The lease started in June 2015 and the inspection by city and county were completed.  I now had to fire this management company as they have not remitted the August and September rents to me (I am in contact with an attorney to recover damages).  This property may be able to be sold to the new tenant at loan amount or more.

Most of these issues for this property alone (and I can go on and on about the other properties, too) were caused by your recommended TK provider, your management company, and your agent.  What is it that you can truly do for me?  

At this point, I can't really trust anybody in Memphis anymore.  No matter who was referred to me or what I tried to do to rectify the situations, I got screwed over yet again.  I have heard from a couple of attorneys that it is common knowledge that out of state investors are getting the short end of the stick and they know how to take advantage.  I know that my biggest mistake was to ever trust anybody from CA promoting these properties at that time, including those TK providers and attorneys that also promoted in CA at various real estate events and still do.  Somehow they still promote their business in CA and of course, they are eager to get beginners investors into the game because it is easy to mislead them and take their hard earned investment money.  Yes, I also told the realtors to take better pictures, etc., but almost every single time I was told that it was okay ("I shouldn't over rehab or "I have another showing so let's not spend more money right now").  There are just too many factors that are out of my control, hence I "hired a professional team that will take care of everything for me".  

I do have another property out of state with a reliable and reasonable management company and long term tenant.  Never once did I have an issue.  They are not in the business of ripping me off.  This property was purchased through a CA investor company that is more on the conservative side and looks out for its investors.