Overweight tenants - Wax ring issue
My new tenants have moved in now as of one week ago. They are both older, have a hard time walking around, both morbidly obese, and the male is recovering from heart surgery.
Prior to them moving in, my daughter and I spent the summer in the house, probably two out of the three months, while I fixed it up and tried to rent it out. We lived there and any issues that I noticed were repaired immediately. When they moved in, a week ago, there were zero issues.
Today, they phoned to say that there is water leaking from the base of the toilet. Of course, I know it is the wax ring. But the whole toilet, and wax ring was replaced exactly one year and three weeks ago.
I suspect that the toilet/wax ring could not handle the 300+ pounds of the male..and that in the process of him trying to get up from the toilet, which is pretty low as it is a cheaper model,the bolts were wrenched loose a bit and the wax ring broken.
I of course will replace it but here is the rub....if a fully functioning toilet with an intact wax ring was damaged due to the extra weight...a new one will also get damaged...I cannot replace this thing every other week...it is not due to neglect that it is breaking but due to the extra pressure. What all would you do?
maybe they sat back too hard and its leaking from the bowl down. There shouldn't be any extra pressure on the ring, all the weight is on edges of toilet base.
If the toilet is bolted to the closet flange like it should be, the wax ring can't "break". It is probably leaking from somewhere else and showing up there... I've found, if the tank is not touching the wall, people lean against it and they leak between the tank and bowl. I always fill that space (if any) with wood.
Well, I guess that could be so, however, my understanding is that if the bolts holding the toilet to the floor are not tightened down or wrenched loose and the toilet now rocks...the wax ring/seal will be broken. Wax seal broken=water leaking from the base of the toilet.
Either way, I wasn't really asking about the repair issue or what the leak could be from....I am asking, if once I fix this issue at my expense and it happens again...which I think it will what do I do. I can't keep replacing something like this. What would you do if you were me? I am considering telling them the first wax ring (if that is what it is) is on me and then after that I have to assume that they are putting too much pressure on the toilet or rocking on the toilet to help themselves get up off of it and causing the damage.
I have also been told by a friend that they can purchase something called a riser that is like a very thick/high toilet seat that allows them to sit down on it without sitting too far down but again that would be a purchase they would have to make and should not be an expense that I need to incur. Please tell me what you would do if you were in my place/what you would say to the tenants if you were in my place to prevent yourself from having to make this same repair over and over again.
Sounds like you already dislike your tenants. Just because something happens once doesn't mean anything. If it keeps happening, you have to make it bulletproof, if its rocking, its not installed right.
Not true at all. They are sweet older lovely people. The man is funny and friendly and the woman is a crafter, just like my mother was. Please remember on the Internet you cannot get the inflection and tone of a person...if you could get mine you would see I think they are neato.
Even so, the fact of the matter is that a repair like this could be costly if I needed to do it several times in a year. Again, I am asking what would you do if you determined the repair was not caused by something I am responsible for.
For instance, I had a tenant that never washed their dishes before putting them in the dishwasher...she also deep fried everything...after a time the drain got clogged with grease....I refused to pay for the bill from the plumber and told them if they didn't clear the grease off the plates that this would happen again and again. I own one property and the rent covers the monthly expenses (mortgage, insurance, taxes, water, trash, sewer bill) and that is it. After that there is a whopping $100 to play with. I can't make repairs that are not my fault. I just don't have the money.
This is the question I was asking about.
Amy I own a bunch of apartment units.
Some tenants here are over 400 pounds yet no toilet leaks.
Is it there weight or that their quads are weak from being old and they can't get back up??
My mom replaced one of her knees last year.She has to sit in hard chairs and for the toilet has one of those plastic toilet seats that sits up high and goes over the toilet.Easy to get up and down and doesn't affect the toilet.You get them from medical supply stores.
If they can't fit in one of those then you could install a grab bar bext to the toilet mounted into the stud in the wall so they could use that instead of rocking on the toilet to get up.
Usually the leak is not at the wax seal.It is at the bowl to the tank bolts or it can be at the water supply line going into the wall.Sometimes people wrench tighten the line at the wall which is correct but also do that at the point going into the tank.If you wrench instead of hand tighten at the tank you will crack or break the plastic seal and it will slowly leak into a larger leak.
Is this toilet on a slab or is it on a plywood floor?? If it is plywood can you get access from the ceiling to see underneath it?
How old is the toilet? When you lift up the cover for the tank it should have a year date stamp on it.
If it is a new toilet it could be the wax ring wasn't seated properly when installed.
Thank you so much Joel for the reply back. Toilet and wax seal were installed one year and three months ago...brand new everything. Will go over your message and check everything as you stated. Thanks again for the reply and info.
Amy did you use a handyman to install the toilet,yourself,or a plumber??
It does make a big difference.
Handyman can screw up by not seating correctly,over tightening bolts to floor or the bolts to the tank/bowl,also over tightening the water line into the tank as I mentioned before.
Did you put in the new EPA toilet bowls that use less water and have the part less tank assembly for the inside??
The new ones don't have parts that the hard water eats where you get water leaks from the tank into the bowl down the road.
Just because a handyman can build a deck or do paint does not make them qualified to do other things.I had the previous seller use a Handyman and had all kinds of issues I had to fix.
Is your toilet on slab or plywood??
Amy - what does your lease say regarding the tenant-caused repairs (given this is in fact a tenant-caused issue)
If there's one thing I've learned, its that I probably don't really know what's going on after talking to the tenants. Usually takes a first hand look to understand the problem.
If the toilet is properly secured to the floor, it won't move. If it doesn't move, the seal can't be broken. From you description, it sounds like the toilet may not actually be secure. But until you get eyes on the situation, you probably don't really know what happened.
You're going to have to get someone to look at the toilet. Unlikely the seal. Could be how secure the toilet in seated or the tank itself. May not be as bad as you think.
Amy, in this case, don't you think that the tenant would complain (or argue, in court) that the toilet was improperly installed/defective? Do you think just because they weigh 300 pounds, every toilet they have ever sat on broke?
I would also think you would have a hard time saying this is a tenant caused repair. Unless you are saying that they sat on the toilet wrong, which would be one heck of an argument in Court.
If anyone is worried about someone leaning on a toilet tank you should use a brace. If not, you run the risk of having a tenant lean against the tank. Secure A Tank works well for this - they are found in any Home Depot store.
I agree with Paul. You need to be careful. The toilet should easily accommodate a person twice your tenants size without any issues except maybe the seat ( the cheap ones that come with the all inclusive toilets are worthless. If your worried about the nuts coming loose from the flange bolts you can use maybe a dab of silicone to keep them from loosing. However, a toilet installed correctly on sound flooring will not move. I have had tenants much larger and never had an issue with the wax seal. (My 100yr old steps thats another story LOL)
This is not a weight issue and you want to be careful not to ruin your relationship with your tenant. Remember cash flow is your problem not your tenants. Don't look to automatically blame them for every issue.
Good luck
I think other nailed it in that you can correct this issue with proper installation and using the proper products for you concerns. Grab bars are a smart idea. Making sure their is support between the tank and the wall is needed.
Then if you replace the wax ring, I now go with a wax less ring. It is a lot less messy and works great. It has barbs that allow it to fit into the waste pipe and a flange that connects to the base of the toilet. Realistically neither should leak unless there is a backup in the drain system.
I'm having the same issue with my tenants and the toilet leaking. We have replaced the toilet 2x most recently abut a month ago. They have called 3x already saying it's leaking again.
I resat a toilet 3 times because I thought it was the ring not sealing. I finally threw in the towel and bought a new toilet and found out the toilet was cracked.
Try the "better than wax" toilet seal sold at home depot. I've had good luck with it and less mess.
Originally posted by @Terri Mccullough:
I'm having the same issue with my tenants and the toilet leaking. We have replaced the toilet 2x most recently abut a month ago. They have called 3x already saying it's leaking again.
Is the tenant overweight? If it is, then the toilet leaking is their bill to pay.
What obese people do, and I was told this by my plumber whilst repairing one of ours that had an overweight tenant, the tenant will sit on the toilet and to pass waste they literally rock themselves back and forth, moving their not inconsiderable gut around at the same time. Which in turn busts up the toilet and/or the wax ring.
My tenants were sufficient in size and weight not just to break the wax ring seal but managed to break the bottom of the toilet off as well. Heavens only knows the psi that the carriage bolts lived through.
There is a solution though; buy a bigger and more expensive toilet. The aqua source $99 toilet from Lowe's seems to do the job. So far.
Oh and tell the tenant that the next breakage is on them.
#2 General Landlording & Rental Properties Contributor
Word to the wise do not rent to obese applicants. I have heard many landlords complaints regarding all sorts of unusual damage and abnormal wear caused by fat tenants. They tend to lean on and break a lot of thinks you would never expect. They are also prone to heart attacks and other health issues that could effect monies available to pay rent.
I don't think they are a protected class are they.
@Amy Shari Great posting Amy. I am curious to see the responses on this thread
@Joel Owens - Really informative postings Joel. I obtained some really useful hints regarding the replacement and maintenance from your postings! I know that I have a toilet from 1987 and am just waiting to get the same call that @Amy Shari got regarding hers. So far no issues with the toilet so I guess I will just keep an eye on it at this point.
@David Wedemire - I agree with you David. I would want to see what is going on first just to make sure that what the tenants are telling me is (what is actually happening) true. I have had issues in the past in which a tenant will call and tell me the dryer is broken, it doesn't dry my clothes the first month they are in the unit. I show up, and then have to teach them how to use the lint trap... yeah seriously... Perhaps in this case, it is the top on the tank that moved on them when they got up, they felt the toilet was lose because it made a weird sound, and maybe there was humid weather causing the reserve tank to sweat and drip around the base of the toilet? What is happening and what is "happening" are two different things.
Originally posted by @James DeRoest:
Originally posted by @Terri Mccullough:I'm having the same issue with my tenants and the toilet leaking. We have replaced the toilet 2x most recently abut a month ago. They have called 3x already saying it's leaking again.
Is the tenant overweight? If it is, then the toilet leaking is their bill to pay.
What obese people do, and I was told this by my plumber whilst repairing one of ours that had an overweight tenant, the tenant will sit on the toilet and to pass waste they literally rock themselves back and forth, moving their not inconsiderable gut around at the same time. Which in turn busts up the toilet and/or the wax ring.
My tenants were sufficient in size and weight not just to break the wax ring seal but managed to break the bottom of the toilet off as well. Heavens only knows the psi that the carriage bolts lived through.
There is a solution though; buy a bigger and more expensive toilet. The aqua source $99 toilet from Lowe's seems to do the job. So far.
Oh and tell the tenant that the next breakage is on them.
No.
This thread has some great accurate replies and also hearsay from others who say "my plumber handy man said..". If you don't know, don't reply.
A well installed toilet with a good closet ring with support an enormous person. There are a lot of ways a toilet can leak so it's hard to give advice without looking at it. The height of the closet ring and the condition of it are very important factors.
Originally posted by @Thomas S.:Word to the wise do not rent to obese applicants. I have heard many landlords complaints regarding all sorts of unusual damage and abnormal wear caused by fat tenants. They tend to lean on and break a lot of thinks you would never expect. They are also prone to heart attacks and other health issues that could effect monies available to pay rent.
I don't think they are a protected class are they.
Pretty sure discriminating based off of size can land you in hot water. Americans with Disabilities act of 1990. A good portion of folks with weight issues have other health problems. Like this guys tenant who just had heart surgery. Sounds like a good way to end up on the front page of the local paper to me.
"Evil Landlord denies Nana's application because he doesn't want to rent to (in your words...) Fat people"
I had the same issue.. I installed a taller toilet....No issues.... As they sat they would collapse and fall onto the toilet...