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All Forum Posts by: Jay Hinrichs

Jay Hinrichs has started 325 posts and replied 41531 times.

Post: How to go about getting owner financing and keeping it secure?

Jay Hinrichs
#1 All Forums Contributor
Posted
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  • Lake Oswego OR Summerlin, NV
  • Posts 43,292
  • Votes 63,935
Quote from @Don Konipol:
Quote from @Andrew Syrios:
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @Andrew Syrios:
Quote from @Abigail Joanna:
Quote from @Andrew Syrios:

Your money being secure wouldn't be the issue when obtaining owner financing. It would be convincing the seller (and lender) that their money will be secure. Best way to do this is by giving them a first position trust deed (or mortgage depending on the state) on the house and a note and maybe a personal guarantee. 

Yes it would be the issue. If not done correctly a seller could take a deposit or earnest money and claim it was not given unless the contract or some safety net is in place, hence me asking for advice on what others are doing to keep their money secure.
I didn't know you were referring to the earnest money. On that, you just need to make sure everything is in the contract and the earnest money is deposited at at title company. If the contract has seller lending back to you and they don't, the earnest money would be refundable and since it's at a title company, the seller couldn't just run off with it. 

Andrew I said this same thing to Chris above.. in Texas they call EM  "option money"  and its a nominal amount 100 to 500. and its NON refundable and written usually to the seller straight away.. once DD is done they can increase the actual EM deposit or walk.. but the option is earned by the seller regardless.. at least thats been my experience on about 20 plus deals I did in the Dallas market.

Ahh I see. It would seem that once again Texans always feel like they have to do things differently than everyone else just because they're Texans

The option provision of the promulgated contract by the TREC was put into effect to reduce the number of disputes rising out of contracts contingent on inspections, etc.  These disputes would arise when the buyer wanted to terminate the contract because the house was not in a condition to their liking, while the seller was willing to do the repairs noted in the inspection report.  Often the seller would disagree with the buyers inspection report, and obtain their own with differences leading to further disputes. Then there were disputes over the quality of repairs and type of repairs when sellers undertook to do the repairs.  

By placing a limited time unrestricted  option in the contract the buyer can terminate for any, or no reason, with no dispute and hence a clean break.  While there’s still plenty of room for disagreement in other parts of the contract, off hand I’d say earnest money disputes have been cut by 75%.  

I lived in Texas 41 of the last 46 years.  Yes, Texans are independent thinkers who don’t automatically accept the popular or common way of doing something is necessarily the best.  Many of us are “refugees” from coastal cities where we found the heavy handed government regulation, ridiculously high state and local taxes to pay for “social engineering”, and general attitude of ‘victimization” to be too restricting to our personal liberty.  


"
Many of us are “refugees” from coastal cities where we found the heavy
handed government regulation, ridiculously high state and local taxes to
pay for “social engineering”, and general attitude of ‘victimization”
to be too restricting to our personal liberty. "

Pretty much describes Oregon to a tee these days.. of course Portland is now going to solve the homeless problem by going into the business of building their own affordable housing.. HM seem to have seen that play before.. A once great city is now a shell of itself because of all the things you described.. Sad  commercial downtown office has the highest vacancy rates in the nation..  But you know had to let BLM and Antifa do their peaceful protests for 150 straight nights. make any theft of 900 or under basically no penalty so rampant theft and of course all drugs are legal including fentanyl Heroin crack whatever. So now you have homeless zombies all over the place.. And yet the locals in the city keep voting in the same people with the same social agendas..  

Post: How to go about getting owner financing and keeping it secure?

Jay Hinrichs
#1 All Forums Contributor
Posted
  • Lender
  • Lake Oswego OR Summerlin, NV
  • Posts 43,292
  • Votes 63,935
Quote from @Andrew Syrios:
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @Andrew Syrios:
Quote from @Abigail Joanna:
Quote from @Andrew Syrios:

Your money being secure wouldn't be the issue when obtaining owner financing. It would be convincing the seller (and lender) that their money will be secure. Best way to do this is by giving them a first position trust deed (or mortgage depending on the state) on the house and a note and maybe a personal guarantee. 

Yes it would be the issue. If not done correctly a seller could take a deposit or earnest money and claim it was not given unless the contract or some safety net is in place, hence me asking for advice on what others are doing to keep their money secure.
I didn't know you were referring to the earnest money. On that, you just need to make sure everything is in the contract and the earnest money is deposited at at title company. If the contract has seller lending back to you and they don't, the earnest money would be refundable and since it's at a title company, the seller couldn't just run off with it. 

Andrew I said this same thing to Chris above.. in Texas they call EM  "option money"  and its a nominal amount 100 to 500. and its NON refundable and written usually to the seller straight away.. once DD is done they can increase the actual EM deposit or walk.. but the option is earned by the seller regardless.. at least thats been my experience on about 20 plus deals I did in the Dallas market.

Ahh I see. It would seem that once again Texans always feel like they have to do things differently than everyone else just because they're Texans


its also the fun of doing business is many many different states .. each has their customs and way they do things.. Always learning new things and methods to transact.

Post: How to go about getting owner financing and keeping it secure?

Jay Hinrichs
#1 All Forums Contributor
Posted
  • Lender
  • Lake Oswego OR Summerlin, NV
  • Posts 43,292
  • Votes 63,935
Quote from @Bruce Lynn:

Earnest Money and Option Money are different.  Earnest money typically held by the title company and refundable under certain circumstances and different timeframes.  I call this your serious money.

Option Money is normally more of a nominal amount and while now delivered to the title company is non-refundable and belongs to the seller if you back out of the contract for any or no reason.  Really the idea behind this is time to do your due diligence like a home inspection.

While there are some legit owner finance deals in Texas I will just tell you most are a scam.  My general thought is for most buyers to stay away from them.  They're full of risk of you losing all your money and the home.  Probably 95 out of 100 I see are just downright fraudulent.  When you are asking all these questions, it makes me even more nervous.

@Ko Kashiwagi is correct.  If you do find a true owner finance deal, you want an attorney and probably better yet a title attorney who is familiar and experienced with owner finance to assist you with the transaction and paperwork.  You should be using a servicer and not paying directly to the owner.

Plenty of things to check on.  Like is the property paid off, or is the seller trying to do a wrap.  Is the person you're working with even own the property.  Many I see do not own the property and are trying to arbitrage or come up with a scheme they think will work and it doesn't normally turn out good for the buyer.

@Jay Hinrichs @Chris Seveney @Andrew Syrios   Our normal Texas contracts have two sets of money involved at the outset.  One is Earnest Money and normally held at title company where they function as both the escrow agent and title insurance provider and researcher.  The second set of money is Option Money.  This is different.  Option Money gives a buyer the right to tie up the property for a certain number of days...right now probably 7-10 days.  While it is not stated in the contract, the idea with this is really to do a home inspection and negotiate any repairs.  If the buyer backs out during this time period, they can back out for any or no reason and they get the earnest money back, but the option money gets released to seller.  Great for buyers, normally horrible for sellers in my opinion.  Lots of reasons I think it is horrible for sellers....for $100-$200-$500 a buyer can tie up a property and bail potentially after 10 days...(both money and days are negotiable) and seller gets the $100 after keeping the property off the market for 10 days.  To confuse things even more, we used to write two checks, one to title for earnest money and one to the seller for option money.  Now both amounts can be in one check or draft or wire and title company splits the money out.  Both EM and OM can go towards the purchase price if it goes all the way to closing if the right boxes are selected.


thanks for clarifying like i told Don its been 10 years since i did deals in dallas I just remembered the options being unique to Texas .. 

Post: How to go about getting owner financing and keeping it secure?

Jay Hinrichs
#1 All Forums Contributor
Posted
  • Lender
  • Lake Oswego OR Summerlin, NV
  • Posts 43,292
  • Votes 63,935
Quote from @Don Konipol:
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @Andrew Syrios:
Quote from @Abigail Joanna:
Quote from @Andrew Syrios:

Your money being secure wouldn't be the issue when obtaining owner financing. It would be convincing the seller (and lender) that their money will be secure. Best way to do this is by giving them a first position trust deed (or mortgage depending on the state) on the house and a note and maybe a personal guarantee. 

Yes it would be the issue. If not done correctly a seller could take a deposit or earnest money and claim it was not given unless the contract or some safety net is in place, hence me asking for advice on what others are doing to keep their money secure.
I didn't know you were referring to the earnest money. On that, you just need to make sure everything is in the contract and the earnest money is deposited at at title company. If the contract has seller lending back to you and they don't, the earnest money would be refundable and since it's at a title company, the seller couldn't just run off with it. 

Andrew I said this same thing to Chris above.. in Texas they call EM  "option money"  and its a nominal amount 100 to 500. and its NON refundable and written usually to the seller straight away.. once DD is done they can increase the actual EM deposit or walk.. but the option is earned by the seller regardless.. at least thats been my experience on about 20 plus deals I did in the Dallas market.
Not quite correct, Jay.  Option money is SEPARATE from earnest money.  In Texas residential contracts promulgated by the Texas Real Estate Commission, the purchaser can choose to request an option period to decide whether or not to continue with the purchase or terminate the contract.  This is actually a “due diligence” period, in which most purchasers would engage an inspector.  
Whether or not the purchaser selects the option, earnest money is a requirement to legitimize an offer.  This earnest money is in no way related to the option money.  

Although purchase contracts in Texas CAN be enforceable without earnest money, there MUST be some type of consideration given.  

 thanks Don It was 10 years ago I was doing those Dallas deals I just remembered the option money  part.. and how that was unique in the markets i had worked.

Post: Detroit Tarrifs is now the time for a rebirth and new look @ this market

Jay Hinrichs
#1 All Forums Contributor
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  • Lake Oswego OR Summerlin, NV
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Quote from @Andrew Syrios:
Quote from @Drew Sygit:

@Andrew Syrios you're way behind on what's happening in Detroit!

Popluation is actually GROWING per the US Census Bureau, and has been for some time.
https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/detroit/2024....

In a nutshell, US Census Bureau considers every VACANT house the city has torn down, which number in the tens of thousands, as population loss:(

Those that actually visit Detroit, see the tens of thousands of NEW apartments & lofts. 

@Greg Miller I don't know enough to comment about whether or not it makes sense to build more manufacturing plants in Detroit. I do know that several factories in the Metro area haven't had a 3rd shift in decades and several are only running a single shift. 

So, pretty sure decent amount of production can be added without building new factories. 

What can easily be done is re-opening up part manufacturing buildings. Detroit & Warren have hundreds, probably thousands, of shutdown parts manufacting facilities that could be activated.

Given Detroit's reputation as the Motor City, local populations would ruin any local politician that didn't bend over backward to bring back manufacturing to the area. The biggest challenge would be the Unions and the cost of union labor. 

@Marcus Auerbach there's a hidden number in the standard unemployment data - the number of able-bodied people no longer looking for regular work. So, they don't really show up anywhere, but several economists have tried to estimate their numbers - and they are HUGE.
This article is 2 years old, but is worth reading:
https://bipartisanpolicy.org/blog/why-are-prime-age-adults-o....
This more recent one is from the government and talks about the Labor Participation Rate dropping.
https://www.uschamber.com/workforce/understanding-americas-l...

I don't think ANYONE posting here knows enough to be an "expert" - or they wouldn't have time to post here!
We should all share our knowledge and interpretation of the facts and hopefully, we can all learn something from each other:)
Let's keep it friendly!


I would have to dig into this more but that doesn't sound at all right about how the Census estimates population (and is quite different than what the census itself says or a google search https://www.census.gov/data/developers/data-sets/popest-popp...). That being said, Detroit's politicians have every reason to claim Detroit's population has been growing for years and not just for the first time in 2024 (more federal funds, better press, etc.) The Census has no reason to undercount. So I would lean in favor of the Census until I see something more concrete than merely the assertions of Detroit's politicians. 


Andrew have you ever actually physically been to Detroit and seen the mothballed car factories ???  if not its something its right out of the movies how they just left them standing HUGE facilities rotting .. I have never seen anything like that in KC for example. And certainly not the West coasts

Post: How to Achieve Financial Freedom with Rental Properties

Jay Hinrichs
#1 All Forums Contributor
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  • Lake Oswego OR Summerlin, NV
  • Posts 43,292
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Quote from @V.G Jason:

Financial freedom won't happen in real estate unless you are able to defy the norm & participate in outliers 

1) You bought in 2010-2020.

2) You bought or refinanced in 2020-2021

3) You've calculated inflation and notice every 12-15 years, you'll need 40-50% more. You've also set aside a tangible amount for medical care.  Meaning if you're 40, you're making 150-200% more monthly knowing the dollar will decline in value to be able to live to 85. Knowing health care costs maybe in the $5-7k/month range.

4) Your leverage situation is capable of handling two troughs; not just RE, but any debt. 

5) Your real estate is physically in shape(no major capex for 7 years +)

6) Your holding cash flow as 50% property reserves before profit. 

7) Your location is quality enough to deter vacancies and, not or, keep very good tenants with average turns of 3, 4 years.

8) You have another stream of income, or two, that can cover 125% of your debt payments.

9) You're insured, mitigated against legal issues & natural disasters appropriately.

10) You're able to save 15-20% of your current income for real retirement age 

If you dont have those things, you're not financially free. Quit focusing on this obscenely overused terms & just develop.


There's just a handful of people that post on this forum that can wake up and do whatever they want. Quit comparing yourself to them and compare yourself to how where you been and how you're going to move forward.


 Touche'  I start at 5am every morning and work many weekends.. I work for myself but non the less I work and I only have 4 rental props.  Renting our money works the same way but no tax bene's so we do need to make more than normal.. as well as being self employed a lot of folks have no clue how much it cost to be truly self employed or when kids need things or kids collage.. one of my clients Daughter just got accepted to Duke. He calls me Sat and wants a run down on our deals as he will need 400k to put her through 4 years.. I know paying for kids Collage is a very personal thing to many.. But for me I keep working as i put both my kids through Collage so they did not start their careers in Debt..  So we work and work more and well for me I would be board to tears if we could not be renting our funds out consistently. 

Post: How to go about getting owner financing and keeping it secure?

Jay Hinrichs
#1 All Forums Contributor
Posted
  • Lender
  • Lake Oswego OR Summerlin, NV
  • Posts 43,292
  • Votes 63,935
Quote from @Andrew Syrios:
Quote from @Abigail Joanna:
Quote from @Andrew Syrios:

Your money being secure wouldn't be the issue when obtaining owner financing. It would be convincing the seller (and lender) that their money will be secure. Best way to do this is by giving them a first position trust deed (or mortgage depending on the state) on the house and a note and maybe a personal guarantee. 

Yes it would be the issue. If not done correctly a seller could take a deposit or earnest money and claim it was not given unless the contract or some safety net is in place, hence me asking for advice on what others are doing to keep their money secure.
I didn't know you were referring to the earnest money. On that, you just need to make sure everything is in the contract and the earnest money is deposited at at title company. If the contract has seller lending back to you and they don't, the earnest money would be refundable and since it's at a title company, the seller couldn't just run off with it. 

Andrew I said this same thing to Chris above.. in Texas they call EM  "option money"  and its a nominal amount 100 to 500. and its NON refundable and written usually to the seller straight away.. once DD is done they can increase the actual EM deposit or walk.. but the option is earned by the seller regardless.. at least thats been my experience on about 20 plus deals I did in the Dallas market.

Post: Detroit Tarrifs is now the time for a rebirth and new look @ this market

Jay Hinrichs
#1 All Forums Contributor
Posted
  • Lender
  • Lake Oswego OR Summerlin, NV
  • Posts 43,292
  • Votes 63,935
Quote from @Marcus Auerbach:
Quote from @Eric Bilderback:
Quote from @Marcus Auerbach:
Quote from @Eric Bilderback:
Quote from @Marcus Auerbach:

We don't have the labor to make more things in the US. 

We still have about 7.4 million open jobs and vs 7 million unemployed. You can't drive unemployment to zero. Anything under 5% is considered full employment. And we are at 4.1%. So while it sounds great to "bring jobs back" - who is going to do them?

And we also have a qualification problem. A modern auto factory does not require much unskilled labor. Material is moved by automated forklifts, and assembly is either done or assisted by robots to meet TQM standards. Much of what you need are engineers and highly skilled workers. We are already short on both.

I doubt that most of the 40% unemployed men of the inner city of Detroit are a good fit for a modern day manufacturing plant.

The Apple CEO Tim Cook said famously: people think we manufacture in China because labor is cheap. The real reason is they have a vast pool of HIGHLY qualified skilled labor.  Video.

I have spent almost 20 years working for a global manufacturer. For any machine that was produced in our US factory and the components needed to assemble the decision was to either fully automate the process to 24/7 production here in the US - or offshore to MX or CHN, the difference being the response time to change orders (6 months vs 6 weeks) due to geographic distance. MX kept us more flexible.

Here is a picture of the BMW plant in Spartenburg, SC and if you want to see the list of jobs they have it's here https://www.bmwgroup.jobs/us/en/location/location-spartanbur...

Why should we care about Apples phones etc.  If they aren't going to bring opportunity to Americans to buy a house, provide for a family then they are not a priority, if they go broke "thems the breaks".  They can take all the money they are spending sending missiles and weapons all across the world and get the folks in Detroit up to speed for those good jobs Apple has.  Americans don't need more technology, we need some good jobs that can create strong communities, towns, neighborhoods etc.  And if your business doesn't provide that then your business is not a priority.  Am I missing something?


Yes, I think you missed my point. It's not about Apple. The issue is: we have more open jobs than people looking for jobs. In other words: we don't need more jobs. And if we create more jobs, who is going to take them?

And a large portion of the people unemployed today have a qualification problem. Simple manual labor is not a thing anymore. You need automation engineers who can troubleshoot a FANUC 6-axis robot - and not a grunt to do heavy manual labor.

And you are not going to train a 40 year old unskilled laborer to become an engineer. Heck, who would even make the investment to pay for college with only 20 working years left to retirement?

Good jobs to create strong communities" sounds really great, we all want that, I am all for it. But the definition of what a good job looks like has changed. Give it another 3 or 5 years. Machines will be picking your strawberries, because they will do it cheaper, better and also at night.

We can recreate an economy like it was in the 80s with "Good jobs for hard working Americans". Tune back the technology. But the world will move on and the ones who say America is a dying empire will have been right.

People today have a qualification problem because the jobs have been shipped over to asia, and industries like timber has been crushed by regulation with the help of BlackRock etc so they can use cheaper labor and make more money.  Nike, Apple etc use these people in asia like slaves the governments are totally corrupt with no labor or environmental protection, impossible for us to compete with that.  The outsourcing of the nations wealth Wall Street and the corporate outsourcers took a huge cut off the top and sent it overseas.  Thats how I view it and that is why Trump was elected I believe.  If Apple can't make money building their technology or Nike can't build their dumb woke shoes here and make money I'm good with that let them go broke.  It took along time to get our population as fat and ignorant as they are today (God bless them, LOL) there could be alot of pain and time whipping our country back into shape.

I didn't know shoes can be woke, good thing I don't have any Nike lol. I agree that Wallstreet and turbo-capitalism took the wealth from the middle class, but the real question is weather it is feasible for us to on-shore production in a reasonable time, AND get wages up AND keep prices from shooting up so affordability gets better AND redistribute income back to the middle class.

It took as all of the 80s, 90s and 00s to offshore our manufacturing. Moving factories and building supply chains takes decades. Raising a workforce with the right qualifications takes a generation. And the sweatshop China you describe has been rapidly vanishing and is being replaced with hyper modern fully automated facilities. 

And you need a very qualified workforce to run them: 1.5 million engineers graduate every year in China, I believe we are just over 100,000

We are asking if we could re-open some of the mothballed factories that was designed to manually assemble a Ford Granada. Meanwhile, BYD is just finishing a car manufacturing plant the size of San Francisco - about 50 square miles large - that will produce a million cars per year. Highly automated factory, not a sweatshop. 

And the cars are amazing! I usually drive German SUVs, but every Chinese car I have driven in the last 2 years makes me realize that they are getting ahead in every aspect. For half the price

So, yeah - something has to change. We can't keep importing everything and the only thing we ship the other way is dollar bills. We do this long enough they have all the dollars and we have all the stuff. Then what?


marcus were do you find a chinese car to drive ??? that would be cool to check them out.

Post: How to Achieve Financial Freedom with Rental Properties

Jay Hinrichs
#1 All Forums Contributor
Posted
  • Lender
  • Lake Oswego OR Summerlin, NV
  • Posts 43,292
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Quote from @Stone Pittman:

@Chris Seveney  is like to disagree just a bit. Is your friend really financially free? From my understanding financially free means you can be without a job and live the lifestyle you desire. Your friend has a job that he has to continue to go to, without it, and without investing elsewhere, he is not financially free. Also, in order to reach that you need to excel in certain skills, study hard, and go through probably atleast four years of college. Real estate is accessible to anybody. I think it is also worth mentioning that nvidia is one of the top paying tech companies. To get a degree in tech doesn't guarantee you a job there or somewhere else that pays that much. 

The reality is real estate very much can get you to financial freedom. What you're saying that I agree with is that it's going to take time, it won't happen tomorrow. 


owing rentals in any other manner than a REIT or NNN is going to be a job to dont kid yourself and if your self managing and you have a lot of rentals it can be a full time giig.. some like it some like me cant stand it  LOL. 

Post: New Construction for Investors (Columbus)

Jay Hinrichs
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Quote from @Sachin Amin:

Hello BP community - any one lately come across new construction properties for investors in Columbus OH, most of these builders in Columbus refrain from selling it to investors and only entertain first time home buyers or if you plan to make it as primary home to live in. (Rockford, MI, Pulte, Ryan homes) - any one know of builders who are investor friendly in Columbus?

sachin


home builders dont want to ruin their communities by allowing a bunch of investors and rentals. Smart move on their part for sure.. have to find a builder whose building rental sub on purpose.. they dont care.. Check Rent to Retirement they have a lot of new builds that market with special financing etc.. Not sure if they are in Columbus or not though.