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All Forum Posts by: Ken M.

Ken M. has started 62 posts and replied 815 times.

Post: Can someone explain the Buy, borrow die concept.

Ken M.#2 Innovative Strategies ContributorPosted
  • Investor
  • San Antonio, Dallas
  • Posts 835
  • Votes 474
Quote from @Michael Puwal:

Can someone explain something about the buy, borrow, die concept of avoiding income taxes?  I understand that you don't pay taxes on borrowed money.   What do you do with the profits from the company to avoid income taxes.

Ask your C.P.A. about stepped up tax basis. It will literally save you 10's of thousands of dollars in taxes.

Post: Paying off Rental or Primary

Ken M.#2 Innovative Strategies ContributorPosted
  • Investor
  • San Antonio, Dallas
  • Posts 835
  • Votes 474
Quote from @Account Closed:

Bigger Pockets Community -

I'm trying to plan for the future and have a question I'd like your thoughts on.  In the past few years I've had some larger tax billed at the end of the year and I'm brainstorming ways I can reduce that burden.

If I'm able to pay of our primary residence or a rental property, which should I choose?

If I choose the rental, then all income generated will be taxable income moving forward, because none will be off-set by the interest I could deduct.  Thus, my taxes should be higher because of the income I generate.

If I pay off the primary, I'll increase the amount I'm able to save monthly not having the mortgage, while also keeping the income generation lower on the rental because the mortgage remains open.

Any thoughts would be appreciated!

People with lots of equity are the ones that get sued. Attorneys don't bother people who have nothing. High end investors look at 3 things

1. Can I protect my equity
2. Can I reduce my taxes
3. Can I beat inflation.

Paying off a mortgage does none of those things.

I'd suggest if you are able to pay off a mortgage, you instead use it to buy another "cash flowing" property.

Post: How to takeover Subject to loan

Ken M.#2 Innovative Strategies ContributorPosted
  • Investor
  • San Antonio, Dallas
  • Posts 835
  • Votes 474
Quote from @Don Konipol:
Quote from @Godsheritage Adeoye:

Hello, I’d like to know how investors typically handle Subject To contracts. Do they use a servicing company to make the payments directly to the , or do they make payments directly to the seller and hope they pass them on to the lender?

There are actually THREE kinds of subject to transactions
1- subject to existing mortgage without lender approval
2- subject to existing mortgage WITH lender approval
3- subject to existing mortgage as part of a seller financed wrap around mortgage.

with #1 and #3 it’s in everyone’s interest to utilize a third party servicer, who collects and then distributes payments.  In the “old” days, people would have the seller pay the lender so as to not “alert” the lender that a property sale had taken place, so that the lender def wouldn’t trigger the so called “due on sale” that’s a part of almost every mortgage or deed of trust document.  With online access to almost every jurisdictions property recordings, lenders today use software that automatically searches property transfers for transfers involving their loans.  Whether the lender decides to do anything, and exactly what they decide to do depends on the lenders particular strategy, target ROI, risk tolerance, current interest rates, interest rate of subject mortgage loan, etc. 
My experience has been that most lenders don’t immediately move on this, many don’t take action for 6 - 12 months.  An investor who has participated in a subject to transaction without lender approval should NOT assume that they are safe from note being accelerated because a certain amount of time has passed.  Often, lenders will not act until the differential between current interest rates and the interest rate on the subject loan reaches a certain point.  So the lower the interest rate on the subject to loan, and the higher the prevailing rate, the more chance that a lender will initiate action.  

I agree with @Don. There are a couple of things that come to mind, 

if a payment is missed the lender cares, if the servicer goes out of business or misses a substitution of trustee, the lender cares, if the borrower goes to the lender to try to get removed from the loan (usually to buy another house) the lender cares, if the property gets caught up in a bankruptcy or divorce, the court cares and that means the lender gets involved. Life is not static for most people. 

If the transaction has "hair", the feds care and financial crimes can be prosecuted for up to 10 years after the transaction. 

Don't get me wrong, buying subject to is legal, but you actually do need to know what you are doing. Any guru (or group) you follow that shows you how to do the negotiating and paperwork is only telling you half the story. The fun part. 

It isn't jumping out of the plane that hurts, in fact it's a pretty nice view, it's hitting the ground that does the damage.

Post: Accessing equity from multiple properties

Ken M.#2 Innovative Strategies ContributorPosted
  • Investor
  • San Antonio, Dallas
  • Posts 835
  • Votes 474
Quote from @Dwayne Rowe:
Quote from @Ken M.:
Quote from @Dwayne Rowe:

How do I access equity spread across multiple properties? I currently have about $600K in equity spread across seven properties. Is any bank offering a HELOC based on the combined equity?

It may be tempting to treat them as one property and do what is called "cross collateralization" in order to maximize the amount you can borrow. But it is very risky and you can lose all of your properties if things go wrong. It's a domino effect. 

 Ken, I would prefer to do that, but I wasn't sure if any banks would offer that type of loan or line of credit.

I think you don't want a bank, you want a mortgage broker.

Post: Selling Property Owned Subject To On Wrap-How To Structure?

Ken M.#2 Innovative Strategies ContributorPosted
  • Investor
  • San Antonio, Dallas
  • Posts 835
  • Votes 474
Quote from @Brian Willie:

Hi. I own a property near Birmingham. I bought it subject to. I owe about $289K and it's worth about $310-320K. I want to sell it on a wrap but not sure how to structure the deal or if there would be buyers for this. The total payment is about $2200 with PITI. Interest rate is 6.25% Nice house, nice neighborhood. Trying to figure out what I can/should expect to charge for 1)Purchase price; 2) Down payment and; 3) the spread per month if any on what I pay per month. Thank you in advance.

One very important point, in a subto that you sell on a wrap, you no longer own the property. If the bank calls the loan due, you are stuck. You can't sell the property to satisfy the bank, because you no longer own it. You can't refinance the property since you no longer own it. You can't foreclose on the guy you sold it to since he is paying on time.

So, a couple of years down the road, your seller gets tired of being on the loan and contacts the bank to get off of the loan. The bank then understands that their borrower no longer owns the property and calls the note due.

You can't resolve the issue unless you pay off the loan, the bank sends the property into foreclosure and your original seller sues you for breach of contract and ruining his credit. 

Lawsuits run a year and a half or so. You get tied up in court and every deal you've ever done gets reviewed to see if there are any other "fraudulent" transfers. Subject To isn't by it's nature fraudulent, it's just the hammer the attorney will use to try to win his case. You have to prove it wasn't done illegally, And, if you can't pay it off to solve the problem, and at the same time, pay for an attorney, you've already lost.

Post: Accessing equity from multiple properties

Ken M.#2 Innovative Strategies ContributorPosted
  • Investor
  • San Antonio, Dallas
  • Posts 835
  • Votes 474
Quote from @Dwayne Rowe:

How do I access equity spread across multiple properties? I currently have about $600K in equity spread across seven properties. Is any bank offering a HELOC based on the combined equity?

It may be tempting to treat them as one property and do what is called "cross collateralization" in order to maximize the amount you can borrow. But it is very risky and you can lose all of your properties if things go wrong. It's a domino effect. 

Post: Seeking Advice on Coaching/Mentor Programs for Real Estate Investing

Ken M.#2 Innovative Strategies ContributorPosted
  • Investor
  • San Antonio, Dallas
  • Posts 835
  • Votes 474
Quote from @Portia Dampier:
Quote from @Ken M.:
Quote from @Portia Dampier:

Hi BiggerPockets community,

I’m fairly new here and somewhat new to real estate investing. I have every intent to complete my very first fix-and-flip project in 2025!
As I look to grow, I’m considering joining a coaching/mentorship program like Partner Driven or something similar. These programs often assert to guide you step-by-step through the process, provide assistance with funding, and connect you with contractors. However, they also come with a significant upfront investment.

Before I commit to anything, I’d love to hear from those with experience:

Are these programs worth the investment?

Have you found them to be genuinely helpful in advancing your real estate goals?

Are there other, more cost-effective alternatives to gain similar support and knowledge?

Any insights, advice, or personal experiences would be greatly appreciated! Thank you in advance for helping me navigate this decision.

I have a long history of fix and flips in several states and the first thing I want to point out is that you make your money in the "buy". You have to buy right, know where the market is headed, know ALL of your expenses and know what your various "outs" are before you commit to a property or you will lose your shirt.


Thank you so much for this advice! I thoroughly understand what you mean. I've been an excellent student of calculating repair costs and ARV. I worked adjacent to a couple of rehab teams on the admin side. I feel I'm finally ready to spearhead my own project. I just wondered if working with one of these mentor groups would add an extra layer of expertise, or if it wasn't worth the hassle. Once again thanks so much for your reply. I'm trying to learn all I can possibly ingest!

The right investor can you give practical insight into your project. Most mentors are more oriented toward the positive mental attitude of slugging through finding a property, which can be trying to a lot of people. I'd join a REIA and find someone doing what you want to do and pay to take them to lunch for a conversation.

Post: How to modify terms of a seller-financed mortgage?

Ken M.#2 Innovative Strategies ContributorPosted
  • Investor
  • San Antonio, Dallas
  • Posts 835
  • Votes 474
Quote from @Dan Deppen:
Quote from @Ken M.:
Quote from @Jennifer Turner:

Has anyone ever sold a property with seller financing then later extended the repayment period or modified the terms of the loan with the buyers? Or even refinanced it to them?

I’ve been searching for a form or contract I could use to recast or modify the terms of a loan that I seller financed a few years ago, with the intention of lowering the monthly payment for the borrowers and extending the repayment timeline. We also need to add in escrowed taxes and insurance to the new terms, as previously the buyers were responsible for paying them, but we’ve recently had to take that over.

Context:

Subject property is a mobile home on land in the state of FL that is owner occupied by the family who purchased it from our LLC. They have had a difficult year and are struggling to make their payments on time each month. We know they're hard working and would like to continue working with them rather than move toward foreclosure, but we know they're in over their heads if we continue under the current terms of the mortgage and don't want to set them up for failure. Our current mortgage terms include a late fee after 5 days, so they're already paying extra each month and have to split the total monthly payment up between 2-3 payments when they get their pay check. The monthly payment is only ~$720 and the interest rate is fixed at 8% fully amortized with no balloon. I know they would be worse off refinancing at today's rates even if they could find an alternative lender able to lend on older mobile homes. And given their recent late payment history, I don't know that they'd qualify with another lender.

We have an upcoming meeting with them to see how we can extend the loan a few more years to make the total monthly payment including installments for the annual property tax bill, which we’ve had to pay for them this year since they were late the last couple years and had to pay interest to the county. 

This is the only property we’ve ever seller financed, in case that clears up any questions you have about Dodd-Frank compliance implications. They hold title, and the mortgage and promissory note were attorney drafted and filed at our local county. 

I do plan to consult my real estate attorney who handled the closing but this is his busiest week of the year, so I definitely don’t want to bug him with something that isn’t extremely urgent until after the New Year. In the meantime I would love to have some helpful information or ideas to share with the buyers when we meet and ideally an agreement/contract we could fill out together once new terms are agreed to and then share that with the attorney so he could draft up the formal instrument for recording.

If you have experience with this type of scenario, I’d love to hear any recommendations you have or any helpful resources you could point me to for the appropriate paperwork.

Under foreclosure laws, you have to send appropriate notices and try to work with the borrower and offer a loan mod before foreclosure anyway. That is not a particularly hard thing to do, but you need to put it in writing and execute a new note for the loan mod.

HUD does a non interest bearing 2nd that you might want to consider doing. That is, they take the arrears, the late fees and any legal fees and they create a 2nd. The borrower simple starts remaking payments at a given agreed upon date. You could set the date out a couple of months to give the borrower some breathing room. That way, you can or choose not, to make a change to the original note.


 You aren't required to offer a loan mod prior to foreclosure. Is there a particular state or scenario that calls for this? I know PA has a process to go through before you start a foreclosure, but have never seen a requirement to offer a mod.

Sure, https://legal-info.lawyers.com/bankruptcy/foreclosures/delay...
Under the Dodd-Frank Act, the bank must first wait until the payment is more than 120 days overdue.

"Once a complete loss mitigation application is received, the servicer must review that application before starting the foreclosure process."


"during the 120-day waiting period. If the owner submits a completed application before the servicer starts the state foreclosure process, the servicer can't foreclose until the following occurs:
  • the borrower doesn’t qualify for, or rejects, the lender’s loss mitigation options, or
  • the borrower accepts a loss mitigation offer but fails to fulfill its requirements."

Okay, let me reword what I posted ;-) IF a borrower submits an application, the bank must review.  My experience is though, that any fed backed loan, automatically is offered a chance to do a loan mod.

Post: How to modify terms of a seller-financed mortgage?

Ken M.#2 Innovative Strategies ContributorPosted
  • Investor
  • San Antonio, Dallas
  • Posts 835
  • Votes 474
Quote from @Jennifer Turner:

Has anyone ever sold a property with seller financing then later extended the repayment period or modified the terms of the loan with the buyers? Or even refinanced it to them?

I’ve been searching for a form or contract I could use to recast or modify the terms of a loan that I seller financed a few years ago, with the intention of lowering the monthly payment for the borrowers and extending the repayment timeline. We also need to add in escrowed taxes and insurance to the new terms, as previously the buyers were responsible for paying them, but we’ve recently had to take that over.

Context:

Subject property is a mobile home on land in the state of FL that is owner occupied by the family who purchased it from our LLC. They have had a difficult year and are struggling to make their payments on time each month. We know they're hard working and would like to continue working with them rather than move toward foreclosure, but we know they're in over their heads if we continue under the current terms of the mortgage and don't want to set them up for failure. Our current mortgage terms include a late fee after 5 days, so they're already paying extra each month and have to split the total monthly payment up between 2-3 payments when they get their pay check. The monthly payment is only ~$720 and the interest rate is fixed at 8% fully amortized with no balloon. I know they would be worse off refinancing at today's rates even if they could find an alternative lender able to lend on older mobile homes. And given their recent late payment history, I don't know that they'd qualify with another lender.

We have an upcoming meeting with them to see how we can extend the loan a few more years to make the total monthly payment including installments for the annual property tax bill, which we’ve had to pay for them this year since they were late the last couple years and had to pay interest to the county. 

This is the only property we’ve ever seller financed, in case that clears up any questions you have about Dodd-Frank compliance implications. They hold title, and the mortgage and promissory note were attorney drafted and filed at our local county. 

I do plan to consult my real estate attorney who handled the closing but this is his busiest week of the year, so I definitely don’t want to bug him with something that isn’t extremely urgent until after the New Year. In the meantime I would love to have some helpful information or ideas to share with the buyers when we meet and ideally an agreement/contract we could fill out together once new terms are agreed to and then share that with the attorney so he could draft up the formal instrument for recording.

If you have experience with this type of scenario, I’d love to hear any recommendations you have or any helpful resources you could point me to for the appropriate paperwork.

Under foreclosure laws, you have to send appropriate notices and try to work with the borrower and offer a loan mod before foreclosure anyway. That is not a particularly hard thing to do, but you need to put it in writing and execute a new note for the loan mod.

HUD does a non interest bearing 2nd that you might want to consider doing. That is, they take the arrears, the late fees and any legal fees and they create a 2nd. The borrower simple starts remaking payments at a given agreed upon date. You could set the date out a couple of months to give the borrower some breathing room. That way, you can or choose not, to make a change to the original note.

Quote from @Keira Hamilton:

Hey BiggerPockets Community!

I’m excited to share a bit about my experience purchasing and operating a laundromat. I’ve seen a few questions about laundromats as an asset class, and would love to share what I’ve learned.

A bit about me: I’m a real estate investor (my husband and I own a 4plex in Oakland, CA), and SBA loan broker. In 2023, we were looking to expand our rental portfolio, but couldn’t find anything in our area that made sense. An out of state investment didn’t feel like the right fit for us either. It was hard to find anything that cash flowed enough to make it worth it to us, and I personally prefer to have the ability to manage my properties myself.

We decided to pivot into business acquisition. There was a lot of buzz around laundromats and our interest was piqued. We found one on BizBuySell and ended up purchasing it for $190k. In 16 months we generated $285k in revenue and then sold the business for $300k.

That experience taught me a lot about what it takes to own, operate, and sell a small business like this. I’ve come to think of this period of my life as my real world MBA, and view my laundromat as a fantastic starter business. My husband and I plan to use the proceeds from our sale to purchase a larger business in a few years using an SBA loan.

For those interested in exploring entrepreneurship through acquisition, I think laundromats are a great place to start. They’re typically stable, cash flowing businesses that are straightforward and simple to understand. If you’re already a real estate investor, you can certainly understand and successfully operate a laundromat.

That being said, there is a lot of misinformation online about laundromats. They are not the passive income dream that some influencers will have you believe they are, and getting a “free” laundromat likely isn’t as good of a deal as it might seem. Like all businesses, laundromats have problems and require time, effort, and money. For those who are willing to invest these resources, they can be fantastic businesses.

I wanted to address some of the most common questions I’ve seen about laundromats:

1. Are laundromats profitable?

Short answer: Yes, laundromats can be profitable, but profitability depends on a few factors. Like any investment, there are good and bad deals.

Location is key. We purchased our laundromat in a safe, middle class neighborhood. Laundromats are open to the public, and if the local neighborhood has a high crime rate and transient population, those can be potentially expensive problems that can affect your business.

We were fortunate in that we didn’t have too many issues with crime. During our tenure, someone tried unsuccessfully once to drill out the locks on our vending machine and coin changer, but nothing too eventful aside from that. Those are repairs that we had to pay for, however, and that can cut into your cash flow if these problems occur often.

Well maintained equipment is also key. If the age of your equipment is older, or it stops functioning, those repairs can also add up.

When we purchased our laundromat, it had a strong brand and positive reviews online. It was already generating steady income, and we were able to grow its revenue further by raising prices and improving operations in the wash & fold service, which led to better customer retention.

Our SDE (Seller’s Discretionary Earnings) was about $77k annually. SDE is calculated by taking the net income and then adding back certain expenses, such as the owner’s salary and non-cash expenses like depreciation and amortization. Those non-cash expenses definitely helped us out during tax season.

2. What does it cost to buy a laundromat?

The cost to buy a laundromat can vary widely depending on the size, location, condition of the equipment, and goodwill. Small businesses are typically valued at a multiple of SDE. Most commonly, laundromats are sold at a 3-5x multiple of SDE.

SDE = Net Income + Owner’s Salary + Non-Cash Expenses + One-Time Expenses + Income Taxes + Discretionary Spending

In my case, I purchased mine at about a 4x multiple of SDE for $190k.

3. What is the time commitment of owning a laundromat?

I want to dispel the myth that laundromats are passive income. Can they be more passive than having a 9-5 job? Yes. Can they be more hands-off compared to other types of businesses? Yes. But, they still require time and effort. Even completely self-serve laundromats require daily cleaning and light maintenance.

As far as time costs, expect to spend time each week troubleshooting equipment issues, routine maintenance, cleaning, and handling customer issues. Of course, you can delegate most of these tasks to employees, but then you should also budget time for employee management, hiring, and training. If an employee calls out sick or quits unexpectedly, you will have to step in to handle the day to day of your business.

The amount of work required from you as the owner will depend largely on what services your mat offers. We had a wash & fold service with pickup & delivery, which added complexity to the operation. But even if you have a completely self-serve laundromat, problems will still occur. Even new machines can experience issues, and when those issues mean that water is leaking all over your laundromat, you’re going to want to respond to that quickly.

It may not be that your laundromat requires that many hours in a week of actual work, but the times your laundromat will demand your attention can often happen unexpectedly.

In a typical week, we would work 7-10 hours on our laundromat, either being there physically or working remotely. However, we went through periods when the laundromat required more of our time, particularly in the beginning as we were getting to know the business.

4. What should I look for when buying a laundromat?

When buying a laundromat, it’s crucial to evaluate the financials carefully. Make sure you have a solid understanding of the revenue and expenses and that you are able to verify everything. Many laundromats take card payments these days, which is very helpful in verifying revenue.

Look at the lease terms – long-term leases with reasonable rent increases are important for keeping costs predictable, and can also be important for securing financing.

Also, check out the equipment and figure out what repairs or upgrades might be needed in the near future. I would advise anyone seriously considering buying a laundromat to bring in a technician to do due diligence with you. If the machines are 15+ years old, I recommend getting a quote to replace them. Many distributors also offer financing and can give you an idea of what monthly loan payment you’d be looking at. While it’s possible the machines could keep on chugging for years to come, I always like to take the conservative approach. Consider, if the machines did start failing in the next couple years, how would a loan payment affect your cash flow?

You also want to think–and this is perhaps the most important piece–how will this particular laundromat fit into your life? How do you plan to operate it? We never hired a manager because it simply would have taken too much out of our profits. I think it’s hard to have enough cash flow to hire a full time, quality manager who actually allows you to be completely hands off when you only own one laundromat. If you scale and buy a couple more mats, this becomes more realistic.

Laundromat vs. Real Estate

Here’s a quick compare and contrast of my experience buying a laundromat vs. real estate investing.

Obviously, your experience with real estate can really vary, particularly depending on the market you’re in. Our property is in the Bay Area, which is known for having more tenant-friendly laws. These are my personal takeaways:

Real estate has been more passive for me. Once a tenant is in and they sign a year lease, there’s not too much to worry about aside from the occasional fix here and there. However, we did have a tenant who stopped paying, and because of how impacted the eviction courts were, it took 6 months for him to get evicted. It’s actually not too bad of a timeline for the Bay, but was still incredibly frustrating for us.

He also was living in filth and really trashed the place. We had to pay a biohazard company over $9k for a thorough clean up. Because of the smell from his unit and general hygiene, we also lost a tenant who didn’t want to live next to him anymore. When it was all said and done, our bad tenant cost us over $30k.

The financial hit was certainly tough, but there was also the feeling that we had no control over the situation. At a certain point, there was nothing further we could do but wait for the courts.

You can think of a rental property as a small business, with your tenants as customers. With a 4-unit building, that’s a very high customer concentration. If one tenant stops paying, there goes 25% of your revenue. Depending on where your property is located, it may take quite a bit of time to evict that tenant. If someone refused to pay for a wash & fold at my laundromat, I might be out $100, but I simply wouldn’t do their laundry again. And with over 50 monthly wash & fold customers, losing one wouldn’t make much of a difference.

Overall, my real estate investment has been more passive, but I felt a lot more control over my laundromat. I could raise prices and make operational changes whenever I wanted. I was able to drive the value through my effort and sell for a profit. There’s not much I can do to control the Bay Area real estate market, and our property has gone down in value since we purchased it. Of course, the story isn’t done being written and it’s always possible the value could go back up.

It was also less expensive to buy and sell our laundromat, particularly because we brokered the sale ourselves, saving us 10% of the sale price. Unlike our real estate investment, there weren’t hefty transfer fees involved in either the purchase or sale. Our only notable closing cost on the sale was an attorney fee of about $5k.

Long story short, if you’re a real estate investor interested in another asset class, perhaps consider acquiring a small business like a laundromat.

Nice that you cleaned up on that laundromat.