All Forum Posts by: Peter Walther
Peter Walther has started 32 posts and replied 1658 times.
Post: Can a “Subject to” Transaction be done SAFELY?
- Specialist
- Winter Springs, FL
- Posts 1,691
- Votes 733
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @Don Konipol:
Quote from @Peter Walther:
Quote from @Don Konipol:
"yeah, I often disagree with Mr Wise, but I LOVE the fact that he unequivocally states his opinion. Even when he implies that I’m “garbage”. This is the second time I’ve been called garbage in the last 6 months. The first was by Joe Biden. LOL"
I considered my comment above a joke, not a political comment.
However, I do have to admit that I do derive great pleasure when TDS causes liberals/progressives/ leftists to go off the deep end!
I don't consider myself to be liberal, progressive or a leftist but an independent. I've seen both Republicans and Democrats loudly and proudly support incompetent and corrupt individuals, but never have I seen one as incompetent and corrupt as the current President and it's really sad to see you take such pleasure in my discomfort. I consider TDS to stand for Trump Delusion Syndrome suffered by those who continue to see him as a successful businessman when all evidence points to the opposite.
I guess the answer for you is yes
Peter I really value your knowledge on all things title and title insurance related.. As well I as I really Value Don's opinions on all things related to finance and doing deals and what it takes to be educated in RE ..
Thank you Jay, I appreciate that.
Post: Can a “Subject to” Transaction be done SAFELY?
- Specialist
- Winter Springs, FL
- Posts 1,691
- Votes 733
Quote from @Joe S.:
Quote from @Peter Walther:
Quote from @James Hamling:
Quote from @Peter Walther:
Quote from @Don Konipol:
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @James Wise:
Quote from @Don Konipol:
I've read all the posts providing posters personal opinions based on their experience, knowledge, biases, and specializations within the real estate field.
The many NEGATIVE opinions, while not changing my mind that sub to CAN be done safely, have opened my eyes to the very real risks involved and the difficulty of structuring the transaction so as to protect all parties; I was also surprised to learn of how many investors have observed unsatisfactory outcomes with these type deals.
So, based on all your feedback, I have come to the following conclusions
1. While subject to. transactions can be done safely, it is most difficult to accomplish in residential transactions where the seller is a homeowner and not an investor.
2. Full disclosure of the negative consequences (retention of liability without ownership of the asset securing that liability, limitation on credit capacity, etc.) must be provided the seller IN WRITING.
3. ALL parties should be represented by an attorney experienced in real estate
4. Buyers with limited knowledge, experience and capital should not engage in this type transaction
5. A subject to transaction involving commercial property and two professional real estate investors is an appropriate venue for a sub to transaction
6. the buyer should be fully prepared to refinance or payoff the existing loan if it is called due, and should have the capacity to do so.
7. the legal structure and documentation should be prepared by an attorney experienced in subject to transactions.
8. Avoid anybody who was a Pace Morby student
Sub2 is for criminals and con artists. Anyone who comes on these threads and talks about doing Sub2 deals is garbage.
Jim Luv you Bro but your over the top on this one..
Was it really necessary to inject politics into the conversation, after all, I didn't mention the sociopathic narcissist currently occupying the white house or the chaos he's creating or his running buddy who thinks I'm a parasite.
" ....after all, I didn't mention the sociopathic narcissist currently occupying the white house or the chaos he's creating or his running buddy who thinks I'm a parasite."
Bidens back at the White House ?!!
I wouldn't get all up in arms, I am sure he's just having an "old-timers" episode again one of the wranglers will get him a 10yr old to sniff to coax him out soon enough.
While Biden certainly wasn't up the task of being President, he didn't have over 100 mental health professionals opine that he is mentally ill. Nor did he have many of his handpicked advisors such as Rex Tillerson call him "a fuc*ing moron", yet many seemingly intelligent individuals insist that Donald Trump is the greatest businessman who ever walked the face of the earth. Forgive me if I seem confused.
Following media affects some people more negatively than others.
Below is something someone just text me out of the blue probably less than 10 minutes ago. I read it and hopefully took it to heart. I’ll paste it below.
My goal is to daily have a happy, cheerful heart.
Words to live by:
Proverbs 15:15
For the despondent, every day brings trouble;
For the happy heart, life is a continual feast.
Proverbs 17:22
A cheerful heart is good medicine,
but a broken spirit saps a person’s strength.
I’m
In child of the King!
Nobody in this world is gonna break me!
I’m blessed and highly favored!!!
Big BOOM ‼️
Proverbs 18:15 – “The heart of the discerning acquires knowledge, for the ears of the wise seek it out.”
Micah 6:8 – “Act justly, love mercy, and walk humbly with your God.”
Isaiah 10:1-2 – “Woe to those who make unjust laws, to those who issue oppressive decrees.”
Post: Can a “Subject to” Transaction be done SAFELY?
- Specialist
- Winter Springs, FL
- Posts 1,691
- Votes 733
Quote from @Don Konipol:
"yeah, I often disagree with Mr Wise, but I LOVE the fact that he unequivocally states his opinion. Even when he implies that I’m “garbage”. This is the second time I’ve been called garbage in the last 6 months. The first was by Joe Biden. LOL"
I considered my comment above a joke, not a political comment.
However, I do have to admit that I do derive great pleasure when TDS causes liberals/progressives/ leftists to go off the deep end!
I don't consider myself to be liberal, progressive or a leftist but an independent. I've seen both Republicans and Democrats loudly and proudly support incompetent and corrupt individuals, but never have I seen one as incompetent and corrupt as the current President and it's really sad to see you take such pleasure in my discomfort. I consider TDS to stand for Trump Delusion Syndrome suffered by those who continue to see him as a successful businessman when all evidence points to the opposite.
Post: Can a “Subject to” Transaction be done SAFELY?
- Specialist
- Winter Springs, FL
- Posts 1,691
- Votes 733
Quote from @James Hamling:
Quote from @Peter Walther:
Quote from @Don Konipol:
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @James Wise:
Quote from @Don Konipol:
I've read all the posts providing posters personal opinions based on their experience, knowledge, biases, and specializations within the real estate field.
The many NEGATIVE opinions, while not changing my mind that sub to CAN be done safely, have opened my eyes to the very real risks involved and the difficulty of structuring the transaction so as to protect all parties; I was also surprised to learn of how many investors have observed unsatisfactory outcomes with these type deals.
So, based on all your feedback, I have come to the following conclusions
1. While subject to. transactions can be done safely, it is most difficult to accomplish in residential transactions where the seller is a homeowner and not an investor.
2. Full disclosure of the negative consequences (retention of liability without ownership of the asset securing that liability, limitation on credit capacity, etc.) must be provided the seller IN WRITING.
3. ALL parties should be represented by an attorney experienced in real estate
4. Buyers with limited knowledge, experience and capital should not engage in this type transaction
5. A subject to transaction involving commercial property and two professional real estate investors is an appropriate venue for a sub to transaction
6. the buyer should be fully prepared to refinance or payoff the existing loan if it is called due, and should have the capacity to do so.
7. the legal structure and documentation should be prepared by an attorney experienced in subject to transactions.
8. Avoid anybody who was a Pace Morby student
Sub2 is for criminals and con artists. Anyone who comes on these threads and talks about doing Sub2 deals is garbage.
Jim Luv you Bro but your over the top on this one..
Was it really necessary to inject politics into the conversation, after all, I didn't mention the sociopathic narcissist currently occupying the white house or the chaos he's creating or his running buddy who thinks I'm a parasite.
" ....after all, I didn't mention the sociopathic narcissist currently occupying the white house or the chaos he's creating or his running buddy who thinks I'm a parasite."
Bidens back at the White House ?!!
I wouldn't get all up in arms, I am sure he's just having an "old-timers" episode again one of the wranglers will get him a 10yr old to sniff to coax him out soon enough.
While Biden certainly wasn't up the task of being President, he didn't have over 100 mental health professionals opine that he is mentally ill. Nor did he have many of his handpicked advisors such as Rex Tillerson call him "a fuc*ing moron", yet many seemingly intelligent individuals insist that Donald Trump is the greatest businessman who ever walked the face of the earth. Forgive me if I seem confused.
Post: Can a “Subject to” Transaction be done SAFELY?
- Specialist
- Winter Springs, FL
- Posts 1,691
- Votes 733
Quote from @Ken M.:
Quote from @Peter Walther:
Quote from @Don Konipol:
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @James Wise:
Quote from @Don Konipol:
I've read all the posts providing posters personal opinions based on their experience, knowledge, biases, and specializations within the real estate field.
The many NEGATIVE opinions, while not changing my mind that sub to CAN be done safely, have opened my eyes to the very real risks involved and the difficulty of structuring the transaction so as to protect all parties; I was also surprised to learn of how many investors have observed unsatisfactory outcomes with these type deals.
So, based on all your feedback, I have come to the following conclusions
1. While subject to. transactions can be done safely, it is most difficult to accomplish in residential transactions where the seller is a homeowner and not an investor.
2. Full disclosure of the negative consequences (retention of liability without ownership of the asset securing that liability, limitation on credit capacity, etc.) must be provided the seller IN WRITING.
3. ALL parties should be represented by an attorney experienced in real estate
4. Buyers with limited knowledge, experience and capital should not engage in this type transaction
5. A subject to transaction involving commercial property and two professional real estate investors is an appropriate venue for a sub to transaction
6. the buyer should be fully prepared to refinance or payoff the existing loan if it is called due, and should have the capacity to do so.
7. the legal structure and documentation should be prepared by an attorney experienced in subject to transactions.
8. Avoid anybody who was a Pace Morby student
Sub2 is for criminals and con artists. Anyone who comes on these threads and talks about doing Sub2 deals is garbage.
Jim Luv you Bro but your over the top on this one..
Was it really necessary to inject politics into the conversation, after all, I didn't mention the sociopathic narcissist currently occupying the white house or the chaos he's creating or his running buddy who thinks I'm a parasite.
Give the current chaos, I assume that's a rhetorical question.
Post: Can a “Subject to” Transaction be done SAFELY?
- Specialist
- Winter Springs, FL
- Posts 1,691
- Votes 733
Quote from @Don Konipol:
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @James Wise:
Quote from @Don Konipol:
I've read all the posts providing posters personal opinions based on their experience, knowledge, biases, and specializations within the real estate field.
The many NEGATIVE opinions, while not changing my mind that sub to CAN be done safely, have opened my eyes to the very real risks involved and the difficulty of structuring the transaction so as to protect all parties; I was also surprised to learn of how many investors have observed unsatisfactory outcomes with these type deals.
So, based on all your feedback, I have come to the following conclusions
1. While subject to. transactions can be done safely, it is most difficult to accomplish in residential transactions where the seller is a homeowner and not an investor.
2. Full disclosure of the negative consequences (retention of liability without ownership of the asset securing that liability, limitation on credit capacity, etc.) must be provided the seller IN WRITING.
3. ALL parties should be represented by an attorney experienced in real estate
4. Buyers with limited knowledge, experience and capital should not engage in this type transaction
5. A subject to transaction involving commercial property and two professional real estate investors is an appropriate venue for a sub to transaction
6. the buyer should be fully prepared to refinance or payoff the existing loan if it is called due, and should have the capacity to do so.
7. the legal structure and documentation should be prepared by an attorney experienced in subject to transactions.
8. Avoid anybody who was a Pace Morby student
Sub2 is for criminals and con artists. Anyone who comes on these threads and talks about doing Sub2 deals is garbage.
Jim Luv you Bro but your over the top on this one..
Was it really necessary to inject politics into the conversation, after all, I didn't mention the sociopathic narcissist currently occupying the white house or the chaos he's creating or his running buddy who thinks I'm a parasite.
Post: Traditional Lender Who Can Get Us Over a Hurdle (Quickly) in KY?
- Specialist
- Winter Springs, FL
- Posts 1,691
- Votes 733
I suspect the lien of the judgment could be transfer to a bond posted with the clerk of the court. If there is a recorded plat that creates a road or ROW I think that would be sufficient for the title insurer to issue a policy w/o exception for a lack of access. If the insurer is saying they can't issue a policy insuring access, ask them what they require to do so and save the expense of asking an attorney. The attorney isn't insuring your interest and will probably just call the insurer anyway.
Post: Interesting Case Study - Note Investing - $100k Loss mitigated
- Specialist
- Winter Springs, FL
- Posts 1,691
- Votes 733
Quote from @Chris Seveney:
Quote from @Peter Walther:
If I'm understanding the situation, a CFD from a former owner to a third party was recorded after the former owner was out of title. Was the CFD entered into after the conveyance or was it prior to the conveyance and entered into before? Did you receive a title search or a title commitment? I've seen people rely on a last deed of record search which wouldn't have found the out of chain deed. In either case, as part of your due diligence do you have someone knock on the door to confirm who's in possession?
So a prior seller name him Chuck, sold his property via CFD in 2019 to Sally. Sally was living in the property and making payments from 2019 to summer of 2024. In March of 2024 Chuck sold the property to a LLC (who lets say was barely old enough to drink) via a warranty deed and they received financing from LENDER. At some point Chuck convinced sally she needed to move out and sent eviction notice even though she was paying. She did not know better so moved out and got an attorney and kept putting her monthly payments in escrow and had her attorney record the CFD.
Fast forward to today where the LLC has never made a payment on the loan and the LENDER is selling the loan. On the lenders title policy is an exception "Rights of claims of parties in possession not shown by the Public Records" which Sally was in possession of the property at the sale and the seller was basically fraudulent.
I'm surprised the loan title policy had the exception for parties in possession in it. Generally, the seller provides an affidavit at closing the avers there is no other person in possession of the property other than the seller and the exception is deleted based on the representation. If the seller discloses the party in possession, the buyer/insured should have also been aware.
Post: Interesting Case Study - Note Investing - $100k Loss mitigated
- Specialist
- Winter Springs, FL
- Posts 1,691
- Votes 733
If I'm understanding the situation, a CFD from a former owner to a third party was recorded after the former owner was out of title. Was the CFD entered into after the conveyance or was it prior to the conveyance and entered into before? Did you receive a title search or a title commitment? I've seen people rely on a last deed of record search which wouldn't have found the out of chain deed. In either case, as part of your due diligence do you have someone knock on the door to confirm who's in possession?
Post: Can a “Subject to” Transaction be done SAFELY?
- Specialist
- Winter Springs, FL
- Posts 1,691
- Votes 733
Quote from @Ericka Parrott:
I had a Subject 2 or wrap deal fall apart last month, getting title insurance and a closing attorney willing to close the deal were among the many issues. Is anyone working in GA closing these type of transactions reguarly?
Did they give you a reason why they wouldn't close and why title insurance wasn't available?