All Forum Posts by: Alex Forest

Originally posted by @Arthur Schwartz:

I realize that this purchase closed a long time ago, but for purposes of selling, it would help to spend a little to subdivide the lot.

Agreed. The zoning does not allow for an easy divide. It will take some effort and expense, but if realized will also add significant value.

I just just stayed at a short term rental. They provided clean linens, but no comforter. In the email before arrival, they stated in big letters to bring your own blanket if desired and pillow cases.  I think it was a covid policy and not sure if they do that as a normal way of operation. 

@Mark Cruse Yup, I could see that at ML, especially if self managed. Nice. We stayed there this past weekend. It's a neat place!  The new siding, windows, and decks that are going in now will be very nice improvements. What I meant by not needing to factor in price, was that other condo  building units (not ML) I looked at didnt generate enough net operating income (ie $2k or break even annually), so I didn't need to factor in price (mortgage) to know there would be no return and negative casflow.  Those units were not at mountain lodge though, which does seem to rent well.

That is interesting interesting that you're seeing bookings are way up. Do you have a sense of how that compares to 2019?  Do you mean for this summer or future bookings further out in the winter?  Hotels nationally are still down a lot, I wonder if it is because snowshoe is an outdoor wide open space, that makes folks feel comfortable and drives them there (during the pandemic).

@Mark Cruse That's good to hear. Yeah, if its self managed, I could see it being more feasible.  How do you handle the cleaning aspect during turnover without a PM?  Have you found a good local firm to work with?  Mountain Lodge does it in house and charges which makes it seem easier for a self managed.  It was my impression that other buildings did not do it in house, so without a PM, that would seem important to have a reliable cleaning firm.  I haven't done enough research to have a handle on if that would be easy or difficult to find. Someone above noted difficult.

Mountain Lodge seemed to offer the potential for some decent net operating income for a one bedroom that I saw, even with a PM, and with approximately $23k in gross rents. Without a PM, it would be even better possibly if theres a good marketing approach or regular client base. A couple other buildings I looked at were only pulling in $10k to $12k in gross rent, and after the PM, cleaning, and HOA, there was not much left (or were already negative) to cover P&I, repairs, or soft occupancy.

Sounds like you found a good area.  I'd be curious how you're handling the cleaning and if it's a good private firm. I was looking in the $58k to $90k for 1 Bdm and $90k to $140k for 2bdm, 2.5ba range.  The sales price didnt come into play too much in the analysis though, as ratea are low and those other factors mentioned above are a larger portion of the expenses.

I would like to find a way to make it work, as we enjoyed staying up there quite a bit and would like to do more of it!  If I can get the finances to work, it would make it a much easier decision.

@James Fisher

Originally posted by @James Fisher:

The Aspen group recently purchased Snowshoe and are making some great improvements.  

HOWEVER - there is a reason the condos are priced so low.  Many owners that bought property there as an investment are willing to take a large loss just to get out from underneath it.  

HOAs fees are out of this world.  Special assessments almost a yearly thing and are usually several thousand dollars at a minimum.  Outside of the Snowshoe rental program - good luck finding anyone to do maintenance or clean after guests leave.  If you utilize the Snowshoe rental program you have no ability to screen guests - I've had owners tell me that they've had to replace every stick of furniture in their property after a poorly screened group destroyed everything.  Also, there are some weird cancellation/rescheduling rules with the Snowshoe program.

Personally, I think the only way that Snowshoe works as a rental is if you are an owner that plans on using the property all ski season except big holidays (Christmas, NYE, MLK, and President's Day).  Rent the property out yourself on the big holidays (not using the Snowshoe rental program) and make sure you visit the property enough to catch any needed maintenance.

Is the reason owners are looking "to get out from underneath it" because of the recurring fees mentioned, HOA, special assessment,etc.. ? I could picture a scenario where the expenses could feel like they are bleeding one dry a bit and just want to offload. I was surprised to hear one special assessment fee for siding a new windows was $24k per owner last year. That is a large unexpected one time cost. I don't have a sense of how much visibility there is into when these might occur and how often those are charged. Or if they are assessed on an as needed basis for repairs and capital improvements.

@EZ Hassan I was up at Snowshoe this weekend (hence searched for and found this thread thats a bit dormant). It was really a good time and a beautiful place. We visited and researched a few condos on the mountain and the comments above resonate. Putting the investor hat on, there was no place I saw that made sense on a return basis, if managed by a PM. By the time you factor in management and cleaning (40%), HOA 400 to 600 or more, seasonality, there was barely anything left for a mortgage payment, nevermind any repairs or potential special assessment.

I came away thinking a couple of the condos can make sense as a second vacation home, with the rental part offsetting the expenses to make it more affordable to go to a place you enjoy being.  Especially visiting in the summer or off season when it wouldnt have a high occupancy or a high nightly rate...and it would also make more sense if one planned to spend a decent amount of time there themselves as well.
Unless one was willing to take a more active role with the management (Vrbo, etc) and maybe even cleaning if lived nearby.  Otherwise, it may make sense to rent instead of buying if just visiting once a year and purely for investment purposes.  these observations, might change, I've just started looking a week ago, and there are a lot of places up there.

 Fun fact, HOA fees at Allegheny for a 2 bdm are $1200/more per the Realtor.
@Tom Gimer Not sure if you have been there in a bit, but they are renovating the siding, windows and decks at Mountain Lodge.

I dont know much about self storage so probably shouldn't be commenting at all... but, even though its 'self' storage, isn't there a level of management that can take time...with a number of units, inevitably dealing with people to check it out, sign contract, move out, deal with locked out with no keys, etc etc. The time factor is what I would wonder about. That being said, yeah is there extra land to expand?  Sounds like high demand and could have promise.

@Wesley W. Another you could reach out to is DE Rental if you're looking to compare and interview.  They are also in Hopewell. They are a small offshoot of Ingram. Agree with @Sudhanshu Singha Ingram has a big presence specifically in that area and probably know it very well. 

@Linda S. It sounds like you just started working wi th Parr, but I'd be curious how you find the experience working with them.  Do you have experience in Petersburg? I've always been curious about it, the prices are very attractive.

@Bryce Witcher Searching for price to rent ratio may lead you to some of what you're looking for.  There are others that have compiled and done work in this area, using federal data like Bureau of Labor Statistics, analyzing several dozen cities and metro areas.  And the underlying prices may be available along with it. Depending on what you're looking for, knowing how rent compares to price provides a useful basis for comparison. Also, folks have looked at historical trends over time which can speak to affordability at a point in time, and over under value.