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All Forum Posts by: John Carbone

John Carbone has started 38 posts and replied 1080 times.

Post: Have any of you lived through a full STR market cycle?

John CarbonePosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Gatlinburg
  • Posts 1,091
  • Votes 957
Quote from @Ryan Moyer:
Quote from @John Carbone:
Quote from @Ryan Moyer:
Quote from @Bob Willis:

I think market saturation is the culprit here more than the economy. 


 Yes, despite the anecdotes ("my sister's brother's son's 3rd grade teacher said she canceled her vacation because of gas prices"), the data is clear on this and the data back up what you said.

Travel demand is still at record highs.  Travel spending is still at record highs.  Airbnb's earnings, Airdna's reports, etc.  All still at record highs.  But that growth just isn't matching the insane growth we've had in supply.  So even as demand stays high, supply is growing faster, and tipping the supply/demand balance towards supply, whereas it was previously tipped towards demand.

However, that's not to say we won't hit a point economically where demand crashes like in 2008.  Just that we're not there yet.  Maybe we won't get there in this cycle and this supply/demand imbalance (which will correct itself as people move out of the space when they see they aren't getting the hot returns people last year got) will be the worst of it.  Or maybe it's not even the beginning.

Meanwhile, Airbnb stock price is far from record highs. It’s down 50 percent, and so is vrbo last I checked. 

Which makes perfect sense with context.  Every techy growth stock is down massively.  Most more on the order of 90% than 50%.

ABNB's P/E ratio is what changed (as did the entire market's with the sentiment shift towards huge P/E ratios), not their earnings.

Their P/E ratio was 127 before, which is obviously insane and was going to adjust alongside all the other mega growth stocks.

That’s a good point. Most aren’t down 90 percent, but yeah I get it. 

Post: Have any of you lived through a full STR market cycle?

John CarbonePosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Gatlinburg
  • Posts 1,091
  • Votes 957
Quote from @Ryan Moyer:
Quote from @Bob Willis:

I think market saturation is the culprit here more than the economy. 


 Yes, despite the anecdotes ("my sister's brother's son's 3rd grade teacher said she canceled her vacation because of gas prices"), the data is clear on this and the data back up what you said.

Travel demand is still at record highs.  Travel spending is still at record highs.  Airbnb's earnings, Airdna's reports, etc.  All still at record highs.  But that growth just isn't matching the insane growth we've had in supply.  So even as demand stays high, supply is growing faster, and tipping the supply/demand balance towards supply, whereas it was previously tipped towards demand.

However, that's not to say we won't hit a point economically where demand crashes like in 2008.  Just that we're not there yet.  Maybe we won't get there in this cycle and this supply/demand imbalance (which will correct itself as people move out of the space when they see they aren't getting the hot returns people last year got) will be the worst of it.  Or maybe it's not even the beginning.

Meanwhile, Airbnb stock price is far from record highs. It’s down 50 percent, and so is vrbo last I checked. 

Post: Coffeyville Kansas on the map!

John CarbonePosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Gatlinburg
  • Posts 1,091
  • Votes 957

On a flight right now, and just happened to see the inflight map, and there it was. “Coffeyville” Kansas…no other town showing up in the vicinity. 

I looked down from the plane, and could have sworn I saw several makeshift hot tubs in a few yards. 

Post: How to figure out zoning needs for STR?

John CarbonePosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Gatlinburg
  • Posts 1,091
  • Votes 957
Quote from @Eric Sebast:

Appreciate everyones help, got my hands on the zoning laws, and under the allowed uses for "Commercial 1" it allows Bed and Breakfast establishments, as well as single family homes. Their definition is:

BED AND BREAKFAST: An establishment in a private dwelling that supplies temporary accommodations to overnight guest for a fee. Meals may or may not be provided. Tourist homes and inns are included here.

I'm gonna follow up with the enforcement officer anyway and verify, cause I'm gonna need to pull permits for the well we need to put in and the electrical/construction we need to do inside, but looks like we'll be in the clear no problem.


 Tourist homes and inns are included here.

That’s what you are looking for. Also check the deed to make sure there are no restrictions on using it as a tourist home. 

Post: How to figure out zoning needs for STR?

John CarbonePosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Gatlinburg
  • Posts 1,091
  • Votes 957
Quote from @Kenneth Garrett:
Quote from @John Carbone:
Quote from @Nathan Gesner:
Quote from @Eric Sebast:

Commercial is specifically zoned for operating a business. A short-term rental is a business. If you need to see it in black and white, then go find the zoning code and read it for yourself. I think you've already got your answer.


 While this is generally true, I had a situation once where it was zoned commercial, but there was a hidden clause at the county clerk where it was zoned commercial “agricultural” that did not allow str and that info was not readily available. Extreme example sure, but doesn’t hurt to cover all bases when making a large investment. 

Let's be clear on this. Some jurisdictions have multiple commercial zoning districts. You have to understand the district you are in. Zoning is divided into different uses within different categories. An apartment building might be allowed in C-1, but not in C-2 or C-3. STR's typical don't have a category necessarily, but when you read the zoning definition of a hotel or motel it is similar. This is how some jurisdictions are prohibiting a STR in residential district because are using the hotel/motel which is a commercial use.

It’s still not all inclusive. I’ve seen commercial zoned properties that allow hotel/motel but to qualify for that it needs to be 5 or more units, which traditional STR won’t qualify. 

Post: Don't use hospitable.com (SmartBnb)!

John CarbonePosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Gatlinburg
  • Posts 1,091
  • Votes 957

Hospitable works great for me. I have 12 listing synched through them, occasional issue, but it’s better than anything else I’ve tested out. I use Yale locks. 

Post: Warning for STR Pumpers

John CarbonePosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Gatlinburg
  • Posts 1,091
  • Votes 957
Quote from @Nathan W.:
Quote from @Collin Hays:


I wouldn't go so far as to say that a real estate professional has a fiduciary obligation to a buyer.  

Actually, Realtors have a fiduciary duty to their clients 

https://www.nar.realtor/sites/...

The vast majority of agents have nothing to worry about. But if you are out there doing YouTube videos pumping this stuff and your show is like a rock star concert pitching this stuff, insurance companies will have an easier time proving gross negligence and your policy could very well be moot. 


Post: Warning for STR Pumpers

John CarbonePosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Gatlinburg
  • Posts 1,091
  • Votes 957
Quote from @Carlos Ptriawan:
Quote from @Collin Hays:
Quote from @Cole Schlack:

 I dont feel its agents saying as much as these STVR Guru's selling books and mentorship. having owned STVRs in multiple states the for the last 20 years the one thing I learned is its not easy or guaranteed. 

Agreed.  Anyone saying it's "easy" or "guaranteed" hasn't been investing in STRs very long.  I remember when I started buying tech stocks in early 1998 - right before the NASDAQ went parabolic upwards, and I thought I was Warren Buffett.  Everything I touched - and everyone else, was going up, up, up.  "New normal".  "Old investment rules don't apply any more."  Life was good.  Want a 20 percent return?  Toss your money into a good mutual fund. It's easy!  

Two years later, thing crashed.  As it turns out, strong balance sheets mattered after all.  It took the NASDAQ 15 years to recover to its early 2000 high.  


Buffet and Charlie Munger are in party mode currently after the FTX/BlockFi/Gemini crypto crashes.
He said all these crashes happened because people wanna be rich overnight without doing anything. 

It's not exactly the same and it's on a smaller scale, but there are some in the STR world who tout the same horn with comments like "you can do it from an app anywhere in the world" and "it's so easy I have the secret sauce to show you" until it isn't.

Post: How to figure out zoning needs for STR?

John CarbonePosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Gatlinburg
  • Posts 1,091
  • Votes 957
Quote from @Nathan Gesner:
Quote from @Eric Sebast:

Commercial is specifically zoned for operating a business. A short-term rental is a business. If you need to see it in black and white, then go find the zoning code and read it for yourself. I think you've already got your answer.


 While this is generally true, I had a situation once where it was zoned commercial, but there was a hidden clause at the county clerk where it was zoned commercial “agricultural” that did not allow str and that info was not readily available. Extreme example sure, but doesn’t hurt to cover all bases when making a large investment. 

Post: How much of a revenue boost does dynamic pricing give

John CarbonePosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Gatlinburg
  • Posts 1,091
  • Votes 957
Quote from @Collin Hays:
Quote from @John Carbone:
Quote from @Collin Hays:

Dynamic pricing is critical to achieving maximum revenues.  The difference in revenues can be substantial.  And it isn’t only about increasing rates for busy times; it’s about adjusting rates on the fly in order to ensure the property is rented.  

We review rates and “opportunity windows” every day.  Part of the deal.

If you are not doing this, your opportunity cost/lost is significant.  

 This is 100 percent correct. I spend 20 mins a day tweaking, and usually an hour on Sunday night fine tuning pricing and calendar optimization to leave as few orphan days as possible.


here’s an extreme example, I just booked week of thanksgiving for $500 a night, and this week I’m getting $200 for the same property. 


 This.  We have one homeowner client who's home rents for as much as $600 per night in the summer.  We rented it for a week in mid February last year for $239 per night.  The homeowner called and questioned what our rationale was.  Our job is to generate income for property owners.  $1673 revenue in one week is certainly better than zero.  That cabin rented for over 300 nights last year.  But its success depends a lot on "dynamic" pricing.  


 A lot of people are using automated software to price their properties. At least in the smokies, I find them to be mostly trash. I do subscribe because There are some nuggets of data to use. However, There is no shortcut to pricing and maximizing revenue. I have a competitor cabin less than a mile from one of my rentals, I paid a little over 400K last year for my property and the competitor cabin sold for 800K last year similar timeframe. I track this competitor several times a week, and I’m likely within 5-10 percent of their revenue despite the purchase price disparity. They use a national property manager, and their pricing patterns are very obviously using the widely used “pricing automation” software.