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All Forum Posts by: John Carbone

John Carbone has started 38 posts and replied 1080 times.

Post: Housing crash deniers ???

John CarbonePosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Gatlinburg
  • Posts 1,091
  • Votes 957
Quote from @Greg R.:
Quote from @Tim Hall:

@Greg R. I went through the 2008-9 crash. This in comparison is a blip, a bli maybe even a b. I had a house that appraised in Sarasota Florida that appraised for $310k and I couldn’t sell it 6 months later for $65k. Many people bought lots in town for $70k and ended up selling them for under $10k so they could get a capital loss. Things have slowed down not shut down. Money is still being loaned. Try getting a bank loan back then. No banks would touch real estate. Hard money was high as can be if you could get one. I suppose I’m a denier but ho hum.

Sorry to hear about your misfortunes in FL Tim. I'm not personally familiar with the FL market, but according to the recorded historical transactions, the median home price in Sarasota county at the top of the bubble was 225k, and when the market crashed the low point was 114k. Which was obviously a massive crash, around 49%. However, you describing a 310k property not being able to sell for 65k, which represents an 80% decrease in value. But you're saying that you couldn't even get that? So what happened to the property, foreclosure? 

What exactly was the issue with lending? Was is that you were accustomed to getting no doc loans, or 100+% LTV loans and those products dried up?

According to data from the Home Mortgage Disclosure Act, there seemed to be plenty of lending going on during and after the crash. 


this was from lennar earnings report. I know we have bulls here from Philly and minnesotta….what is it a national home builder sees that you all aren’t?


Post: Housing crash deniers ???

John CarbonePosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Gatlinburg
  • Posts 1,091
  • Votes 957
Quote from @John Carbone:
Quote from @Greg R.:
Quote from @Michael Wooldridge:
Quote from @Greg R.:
Quote from @Michael Wooldridge:
Quote from @Greg R.:
Quote from @Carlos Ptriawan:

As to DFW and Austin, what about it? Has it shifted 10% on values? Until it does it doesn’t impact anything. 

So far my predictions of east vs west coast and stagnation in Texas has been pretty spot on. Austin was the one market I had called out with some short term risk. 

Nationally I’ve called for 10% changes. Time will tell who is right but my prediction is we just have MUCH less sales next year. Housing will just fall off a cliff. 

Good question... let's take a look at DFW. Peak of the bubble was May 2022, where the median sold price was $490k. Fast forward to September 2022, only 4 months later and the median sold price is $399k. That's an 18.5% drop in median sold prices in 4 months. Almost double the number you said it would need to shift to have an impact. 


 But it’s up 6.5 percent YOY 😂 

$449,000 national median peak down to $427,000….we will be under 400k shortly 

@greg it was a joke on the YOY, that’s what James always says though  

Post: Housing crash deniers ???

John CarbonePosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Gatlinburg
  • Posts 1,091
  • Votes 957
Quote from @Greg R.:
Quote from @Michael Wooldridge:
Quote from @Greg R.:
Quote from @Michael Wooldridge:
Quote from @Greg R.:
Quote from @Carlos Ptriawan:

As to DFW and Austin, what about it? Has it shifted 10% on values? Until it does it doesn’t impact anything. 

So far my predictions of east vs west coast and stagnation in Texas has been pretty spot on. Austin was the one market I had called out with some short term risk. 

Nationally I’ve called for 10% changes. Time will tell who is right but my prediction is we just have MUCH less sales next year. Housing will just fall off a cliff. 

Good question... let's take a look at DFW. Peak of the bubble was May 2022, where the median sold price was $490k. Fast forward to September 2022, only 4 months later and the median sold price is $399k. That's an 18.5% drop in median sold prices in 4 months. Almost double the number you said it would need to shift to have an impact. 


 But it’s up 6.5 percent YOY 😂 

Post: Housing crash deniers ???

John CarbonePosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Gatlinburg
  • Posts 1,091
  • Votes 957
Quote from @Carlos Ptriawan:
Quote from @James Hamling:
Quote from @Michael Wooldridge:
Quote from @Greg R.:
Quote from @Carlos Ptriawan:

CA's placement upon that pedestal is coming to end, these are the last days of CA as the gold-star of whatever. No doubt CA was "THE" state, so much so that it's afforded decades of neglect and abuse to come to a point of being surpassed by so many others. But it's here, the day of reckoning is upon CA. The coming years will be the age of CA's accountability, and it's gonna hurt, gonna hurt so dang bad. Chickens coming home to roost. 

And as TX thrives, TN thrives, FL, MN, WI, SD, and so on and so fourth, CA will be an after thought for most. The smart $ and persons will leave in ever increasing masses for the areas of current prosperity. Ever tightening that nuce around CA's throat. 


 Yeah, all this confusion started when a lazy reporter from a newspaper is saying nationwide real estate will experience 10% drops while in reality, MN price increased by 1-2%, TX has zero growth and CA dropped 15% (temporarily). Everyone reading the wrong statistical book.

These short term gyrations are expected going from august to September. The real main impact is this winter/spring. The bulls got their 1-0 lead this month, but it’s bases loaded now for the bears 0 outs with the first baseman pitching but people only looking at the  Box score, this will be updated in due course. 

Post: Housing crash deniers ???

John CarbonePosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Gatlinburg
  • Posts 1,091
  • Votes 957
Quote from @James Hamling:
Quote from @John Carbone:

@James Hamling seems like my call is coming right on que here. Seasonal adjustments claims are proving to be a myth. Short term 12-18 month 20-30 percent drops and then prices skyrocket higher like you claim, you are just a year to two too early . 


 Well, let's see who's forecasting better matches the reality that comes. 

Remember in my forecast I have a running commentary of the Lynch-pin Theory that goes along, which none of these fancy charts and analysis you pull from take into account. These things your looking at are a very small select data segment, and then projects it forward in a kind of tunnel vision. Which is why they are so wildly inaccurate the further out they view, and have such sizable changes so consistently. 

As I have said, watch for policy actions of interdiction in the next 8-12 mnths now to effect some kind of "affordability in housing". It will be coming, without doubt. 

As for the "crash" you keep calling for, need I remind it only exists in your charts, still, not in reality. You've been calling for a "crash" for weeks, and it doesn't happen. It's continued to be something "just around the corner", consistently.     20-30% drop in national median home prices is just NOT a realistic thing, it's not, and there is a mountain of data to prove such. Just do some research on '08', because what your calling for is on same level if not bigger, FYI. It's easy to call it out as NOT viable. 

I’ve never referred it as a “crash”, all I’m saying 20-30 percent from peak by end of 2023. I don’t like using that term because stocks dropped 20-30 percent since January but it’s not a “crash” because it’s not instantaneous. Expect similar to stock market with housing by end of 2023, I don’t care what the official definition is, “crash” “correction” “draw down” just 20-30 percent by Dec 31 2023, off the peak median home value nationwide. 

Post: Housing crash deniers ???

John CarbonePosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Gatlinburg
  • Posts 1,091
  • Votes 957
Quote from @Carlos Ptriawan:
Quote from @John Carbone:

@James Hamling seems like my call is coming right on que here. Seasonal adjustments claims are proving to be a myth. Short term 12-18 month 20-30 percent drops and then prices skyrocket higher like you claim, you are just a year to two too early . 

US Homebuilder Confidence Collapses In October, Future Sales Hope Hits Decade-Lows




What's funny is how come their confidence is all time low but their gross profit margin is highest at record LOL 

I think because forward looking they know what’s coming. record gross profit from all the cheap money until now with locked in debt rates that will be going up with the debt rolling off at higher rates. Recent construction sold over summer I know builders 100 percent profit. Not so much now. 

Post: Housing crash deniers ???

John CarbonePosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Gatlinburg
  • Posts 1,091
  • Votes 957

@James Hamling seems like my call is coming right on que here. Seasonal adjustments claims are proving to be a myth. Short term 12-18 month 20-30 percent drops and then prices skyrocket higher like you claim, you are just a year to two too early . 

US Homebuilder Confidence Collapses In October, Future Sales Hope Hits Decade-Lows

It appears delusion and hope can only last so long - even when one's salary depends on it - as US homebuilder confidence crashed to COVID lockdown lows in October after refusing to see what everyone else was seeing more months.. and what homebuyers were clearly feeling as prices soared along with mortgage rates and devastated affordability for most Americans. Against expectations of a small drop from 46 in September to 43 in October, the headline confidence index crashed to 38 - its lowest since the nadir of COVID-lockdown panic (that was worse than the weakest forecast of all economists surveyed)...

Source: Bloomberg

This the 10th straight monthly decline in homebuilder confidence - the longest losing streak since data began in 1985.

Under the hood, the report’s measure of future sales slid 11 points to 35, the lowest since 2012, while indexes of current sales and prospective buyer traffic weakened to the softest levels since May 2020.


https://www.zerohedge.com/pers...

Post: Housing crash deniers ???

John CarbonePosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Gatlinburg
  • Posts 1,091
  • Votes 957
Quote from @Michael Wooldridge:
Quote from @Carlos Ptriawan:


Also September Zillow HI is out. Even San Jose market is already stabilizing. 

Diff between July-August is -45k
Diff between August-Sep is -2k

It's already stabilizing even in the worst market, market only drops $100k.

That certainly matches with my way of thinking on Florida.

Glad to see cali stabilize a bit. I still think depending on fed reactions next 3 months we could still see some more dips and adjustments out West but my general feeling is as long as inflation continues it’s current trend. We will get into more of a flatline in the beginning of the year, nationally, with some slight raises sometime in the 2nd half as rates and announcement of rate changes come out.  time will tell.

As to the fed change today, @Carlos Ptriawan, I’m with @John Carbone, I don’t see any changes today - at least in the US. 

I would have expected 10 year treasury to collapse below 4 if the fed did a mini pivot today. Still holding on to 4 handle. 

Post: Housing crash deniers ???

John CarbonePosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Gatlinburg
  • Posts 1,091
  • Votes 957
Quote from @Carlos Ptriawan:
Quote from @John Carbone:
Quote from @Carlos Ptriawan:
Quote from @Michael Wooldridge:
Quote from @Carlos Ptriawan:
Quote from @Michael Wooldridge:
Quote from @Carlos Ptriawan:

Do you have link to the liquidity injection? 


 try google reverse repo

I don’t see anything today? 

Post: Housing crash deniers ???

John CarbonePosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Gatlinburg
  • Posts 1,091
  • Votes 957
Quote from @Carlos Ptriawan:
Quote from @Michael Wooldridge:
Quote from @Carlos Ptriawan:
Quote from @Michael Wooldridge:
Quote from @Carlos Ptriawan:

 Had a very busy day. what happened today with the Fed? Still getting caught up.


Fed did a mini pivot today by injecting liquidity. The bond is stabilizing. ECB going to tighten on other ends next week.

The balance sheet of the Fed at this moment is similar to Q3 2020. 


Do you have link to the liquidity injection?