All Forum Posts by: Shiloh Lundahl

Hey Kay, I know the pain of losing money.  I have lost around 85k twice; and both times were fairly early in my investing career.  One time was with a partner that was a bad operator and the other time was with a contractor who essentially stole $85,000.  Was it painful? Yes. Did I learn from it and move forward? Yes. 

Here is what I have learned over 15 years from both profits and losses.  And I start off by saying that this is in no way an advertisement for myself or for any services.  I say that because my answer here will have some bias because I am a coach, but this post is not self-promotion. I self-promote plenty in other ways.

First, I have probably made more money with manufactured homes on land than any other asset class.  So the asset class is not the problem.  When you are investing in manufactured homes you need to keep a few things in mind. 

1. What year is the home? It is very hard to get financing on a manufactured home pre June of 1976. So find out the year and I would generally not buy manufactured homes before that unless they are very inexpensive, it is a good rental market, the property is in decent shape, and I can create seller financing for it.

2. Does it come with the land or is it rented land? The short of it is you want to own the land with it. 

3. Has it ever been moved? It is hard to get financing on a manufactured home that has been moved. Although I moved a double-wide manufactured home from a park that I bought for 25k and I moved it (for 5k) onto a piece of land I bought for 20k and had them put it back together for a few thousand dollars.  Also, I had to put in a well for the unit next door that cost 40k so I was able to lower my basis for the well by splitting it between 2 properties. Our all-in was about $80,000 and we got a loan on it from a private money lender for about $50,000 that we paid 10% on and we sold it for around $195,000.  

4. How is the subfloor.  Sometimes the subfloor can be bad and you have to replace a lot of it and it can be expensive if you are tearing apart the majority of the inside of the manufactured home.  Also, sometimes a city will stop you if you remove an outside walls to repair it and they will make you basically condemn it as uninhabitable.  We had that happen once. 

5. You may need to get tie-downs before you can sell it depending on the location and the type of loan. 

Last month I partnered with a guy.  He was the money guy and I was the operator.  We got a manufactured home (1981) from a wholesaler, we cleaned it up and painted the outside and did a few fixes for a total cost of between 7k and 10k.  We sold it within a few months and made 20k each. https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/2945-W-9th-Pl-Apache-Junc...

So I don't think it was the asset class.  People usually lose money in real estate for just a few reasons, 1) they overestimate what it should be able to sell for, 2) they underestimate the repair costs, 3) there is something just down right undesirable about the house or area, and 4) they didn't pay attention enough to the market itself (which is where a lot of people are struggling right now).

I don't know your particular deal, but it may not have been a good deal. I don't know. But what I would suggest to you is connecting with someone, possibly someone in your area that is making money in the type of real estate that interests you. Then taking them out to lunch and present the deal you did to them and ask them for feedback in what went wrong and if they would have done the deal or done something different with the deal.

I would venture to say that right now the market is chewing up a lot of novice investors leaving room for the more savvy and experienced investors to make the money.  So connect with more experienced investors improve your results. 

Good luck to you.

Wow, after reading the thread in its entirety, there are so many things that I would like to say, but I am busy so I have created a great AI prompted response for more time efficiency. 

Here is my great AI response: You're all a bunch of whining babies!

I think that response summed it up fairly well. However, here are some more details for those who are less sensitive and able to read past the comment above.

Has BiggerPockets changed. Absolutely! Just like my midsection has. I don't like it but I deal with it because it isn't just BiggerPockets that has changed, I have changed, the markets have changed, technology has changed, and many people have come and gone. I don't lay blame on BiggerPockets because of this. I try to capitalize on the good. So let's start there and then go to some suggestions that I think may be helpful to me and possibly others but that may or may not be as helpful to BiggerPockets.

What I have found to be helpful on BiggerPockets over the years.

1. BiggerPockets has made me a millionaire several times over. I reached out to @Scott Trench in a private message shortly after he wrote his book and before he became the CEO of BiggerPockets and I told him that I wasn't getting many responses to my posts and asked if he had any suggestions of what I could do to get more interaction.  He responded by telling me to post something with an edge or somewhat controversial.  My next post was titled something like, "Are Newbie Investors Entitled?" That post got hundreds of responses. And it gave me an opportunity to share my experience with meeting with new investors for lunch and them asking me to share my knowledge and my contacts and then I was the one that ended up paying for lunch. But it also gave me an opportunity to share what I was doing at the time which was an earn and learn program where people would lend to me on my real estate deals and I would include them in my WhatsApp group and show them the steps of investing on the deals they were lending on.  From that post, one guy reached out to me and lent me $35,000 on one of my projects. It was super helpful to me and he earned money and we both benefited from it.  And that was just the beginning.

2. I started a real estate Meetup Group. BiggerPockets used to advertise more prominently local meetups hosted by members.  One guy posted a meetup to be held in my city but didn't have a location for it.  So I reached out to see where it would be held and there was no response and several people wanted to meetup.  So I highjacked the post and told everyone that I would provide the location for the meet up at my office. And from there, I started hosting meetups at my office in Mesa, Arizona every month (4th Monday of the month, message me for details) and I have kept it going for about 7 years now.  I used to get 25 - 40 people to those meetups and through the meetups I found dozens of private money lenders where I have raised millions of dollars in private money, and found some awesome partners, and have made some lifelong friends.  

3. The Podcast. It was around this time that @Mindy Jensen reached out to me and asked me to be on a podcast where I got to talk about my investing strategies combining the BRRRR strategy with lease options and calling it the BRRRLO Model. This opened up a ton more opportunities to connect with people building my real estate businesses. And speaking of the podcast, I was listing to the podcast that @Alexander Felice did years ago and It gave me an idea that led to another idea that led me to change the way I buy properties which helped me scale to 250 properties within just a few years. And I got that just from listening to a podcast with a curious mind.

4. Connections and Masterminds. Brandon Turner rolled out his intention journal several years ago and offered to connect people with other investors at their same level if they wanted to form small mastermind groups.  I took him up on that and I ordered the book for the sole purpose of connect with others in a mastermind group. This group of 5 BiggerPockets members lasted for 2 years where we had a weekly zoom call.  It was truly an incredible group. @JD Martin and @Jerry Williams know about it. My growth and knowledge increased a ton through the weekly meetups and I got up to 100 properties. I then sought out other investors through BiggerPockets with 100 or more properties to continue to grow and to learn better business systems to manage my growth and properties.  That mastermind group lasted another year and I learned a ton from that one too and I grew up to 200 units at that time.  My growth then led me to a mastermind outside of BiggerPockets for individuals who where multimillionaires that I wouldn't have been able to be a part of if it weren't for my growth that I had experienced through BiggerPockets. Through that mastermind group I continued to mature as an investors and learned more about partnerships and expanded my growth into large luxury vacation rentals which I now have 5, 2 cabins in Lakeside, Arizona that are top performers and 3 luxury private resorts in Costa Rica (for more info, reach out). None of this would have happened like it did without BiggerPockets. 

So I pay for a pro membership, not because I need the use of the calculators or most of the other pro membership benefits, but because I want to give back to the platform that, for me, helped me grow more than anything else and has connected me with incredible individuals that I have connected with off the platform and whom I would call friends.  People like
@JD Martin, @Jay Hinrichs, @Mike Dymski, @Alexander Felice, @Mindy Jensen, and so many others.  

So to respond to the idea of a Downfall of the BiggerPockets forum, I would say that you may want to look at a couple of things.  1) Look at your own personal growth.  Maybe you have grown as an investor and so you don't get as much out of the forums as you used to because you have already learned the basics really well and you are ready for more meatier discussions. And if that is the case find some of those people on BiggerPockets, because they are there. And if you are someone worth getting to know then you may find some awesome friendships through this platform. And 2) a lot of times you get out of things what you put in.  If you just expect to be fed and enlightened and complain when you're not you may not be contributing much yourself. 

As for things that I think would make BiggerPockets better, here are a few suggestions.

1. Bring the local meetup map back and include a link prominently on the main landing page. I think this was one of the best features.

2. Include on the main page the top 3 trending forum posts again.  The main page looks more like an advertising page rather than a forum website.  I would say to put the forum more centered and prominent on the front page of the website.

3. Lastly, for the BPCONs I would encourage you to have a fewer speakers but have the speakers speak in the opening sessions in the morning and have them speak for around 15 - 20 minutes each about a topic and then have them go into a deep dive for 2 hours on the subject in the breakout sessions.  Then have lunch and then come back for even more deeper content from the same presenters.  I think people are looking for more meat at the conferences rather than just skimming the surface for several topics. 

In summery: I tried to bring back some of the good stuff in this post by keeping it true to form with content teetering on breaking the rules with a few insults, controversy, possible use of AI, sprinkled with a little self-promotion of course. 

Yours truly, and have a great day and enjoy investing.

@Alexandra Hughes Pailet hey Alex, I am looking for a last minute ticket too.

I am looking for a ticket. 

@James Hamling I'll answer your question with the phrase "It depends." 
I thought I had read all of the posts connected to this thread, and I saw that you reference the Arizona tenant landlord act, which is 50 pages. I didn't notice that you had reference anything specific. 

Here's a scenario and you tell me your thoughts.

let's say somebody is not able to qualify for a mortgage and they are interested in a lease with the option to buy. So they go into contract as a lease with the option to buy. They have three years to buy the subject property, and they've been living in it and enjoying the property during that time. They know that the air conditioner is not brand new and will likely only last a couple more years after they purchased the property and then it will need to be replaced. Because they would like to buy the house and they would like to have a brand new air conditioner, they would like to have the owner spend $8000 to put in a brand new air conditioner before they exercise the option. so they do a little sabotage secretly to make it so the air conditioner stops working in order for the owner to replace the air conditioner before they exercise the option.

How do you think this situation should be handled?

@James Hamling I don't understand why you argue with people about what you think they should or shouldn't be able to do. Especially if they have been doing it for years. 

You seem to demonize the lease option strategy while it is a legitimate strategy since probably before you were born. Yet it appears as though you you assert to know all the legalities of it in multiple states. 

I have done somewhere between 80 and 100 lease options across 2 states. And I have helped dozens of people become home owners (probably around 30 - 40) that have exercised their options. It looks like @Ken M. has a higher success rate than me. And I think one of the main reasons is because he charges a higher option fee than me. Most of my option fees are between $3000 and $5000 depending on the property. I also usually charge $200 above market rent and then I give the tenant a $100 discount to the tenant buyer to take care of any issues that come up with the property during the 3-year option period. I take care of any serious issues that I think may break within a three year period of time before doing the lease option. if something major does come up, and they're not in a position to take care of it, then I may take care of it and then I just add the cost to the option strike price.

whenever I've had people bring in a larger option fee then I will lower the option price each year. For example, let's say the property values at $300,000 today and let's say that I'm selling it on a lease with the option to buy for $330,000 within a three year period of time. Let's say they bring in $30,000 as an option fee. I would then fix the option price at $300,000 for the next year and then I would lower the strike price to $295,000 during the second year and $290,000 during the third year. Every time except for once when someone has put an option fee over $20,000 they have exercise the option.

The option document and the lease document are separate documents. Everything is explained to them, and they initial next to paragraphs showing that they understand the paragraph. 

This has been shown to be a fantastic strategy for many people that are not able to get a loan to purchase a home today. in fact, I purchased my own home using the lease option strategy as the buyer. Most of the time I use the lease option strategy as the seller. 

You just need to be an ethical Investor. If you're not an ethical Investor, then you can misuse this strategy just as you can misuse almost any other real estate strategy. 

Hi @Matt Ridenour I have been a part of some Mastermind groups for short-term Rentals.  I too have larger short-term rentals while most people have smaller homes.  So it is good to get together with others people who have similar type properties to bounce ideas off of each other.  Let me know if I can be of help.

Hey Everybody, if you are in Mesa, Gilbert, Apache Junction, Chandler, Tempe, Queen Creek, or San Tan Valley Arizona, then come meet up with other investors in your area to network and learn.

I host a monthly meetup out of my office at 3048 E. Baseline Rd. Ste. 107, Mesa, AZ 85204 on the 4th Monday of the month at 7:30 PM.

We talk about what's working and what's not in the current market and then we break down current deals we are doing and the numbers for the deals so you can see actual deals taking place and current purchase costs, rehab costs, what the properties appraise for and then sell for or refinance for.

It is also a great place to connect with other investors that may even become future partners.

So if you are in the East of Phoenix in Arizona then come join us.

Hey@Richie Martin. This is pretty simple. If it is an off market purchase you can search on google for the real estate purchase contract for the state where the property is located, use ChatGPT to ask how to fill out the contract, or to find a video on YouTube on how to fill I out. Then go to the person and fill it out with them. You can also conned with a real estate investor friend, mentor, or coach in your area to help you set up the contract correctly. 

If the property is on the market, you can go to Zillow and look for the listing agents phone number and give them a call or send them a text letting them know you are interested in property. Then ask them questions about the property so you can make a decision on the price you want to offer and then send them an email or text with the terms of the offer and let them know that you don't have a realtor and that they can represent you if they would like to. Let them know about your experience if you have done a lot of deals. This can help them have confidence in your offer. If you are working with someone who is guiding you through this deal, then let them know that you are working with a partner and that together you have done X amount of deals. This is called leveraging the experience of others. Again, it helps the agent have confidence in your offer.

I have found that making offers through the seller's agent has given me a leg up in the transactions as long as I have the experience and expertise to watch out for my own interests. Also, I almost always make offers well below market value so if anything comes up unexpectedly I can usually cover the cost to get it fixed with the money I saved through the low offer.

I have probably purchased between 50 and 100 properties this exact way. 

@Bill B. as someone who has invested in Costa Rica, I would have to say that I get better returns in the US. So if you are looking for the highest return than I would say to stay in the US. However, if your goal is something besides just cash flow, then it may make sense to invest out of the country. We have 3 luxury properties in Costa Rica with partners and they all pay for themselves plus create a little cash flow for the owners (3-5%). But the amount of enjoyment I get out of those properties is way more than any of my properties in the states.