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All Forum Posts by: Andrew Davis

Andrew Davis has started 11 posts and replied 767 times.

Post: The Power of Bigger Pockets

Andrew DavisPosted
  • Investor
  • Asheville, NC
  • Posts 833
  • Votes 499

The long awaited conclusion:)

Hey BP community!

First off, I apologize for taking so long to post the results. You all were so supportive and encouraging, and I really appreciate your enthusiastic feedback.

I wish I were posting that the house sold at asking price in 30 days, my investor realized a higher than expected return and I netted a solid $25k. However, that’s not quite how it happened. I deliberated for some time about sharing the experience, and what I learned, and ultimately decided that if it was of some benefit to this amazing community, I ought to.

A quick recap

I partnered with a contractor on this deal who was referred to me by someone I really respect (an executive at a big RE company). Supposedly, the contractor had been flipping homes for 20 years, doing development, and had made millions of dollars.  This was my first flip, so I felt honored that someone of his stature would work with little old me. Our deal was that I would fund the purchase of the property, he would oversee and fund the rehab at cost and we would split the profits.

I raised the funds for the purchase here on BP, here's a link the marketplace post.

The numbers ought to have looked something like this

$92k purchase

$45-50k rehab

$200k sale

$42k profits:  $21k to contractor, $4.2k to the investor + principal, $16.8k to me + $6k commission on the sale, I wasn’t looking for a home run, just a solid first flip.

And this is what actually happened

As the project was finishing up (2 months behind schedule), I realized that the contractor I partnered with had completely misrepresented himself.

He estimated around $40-45k for the job, but by the time it was finished, he claimed to have $65k into it. I never saw a receipt or invoice, despite asking for them repeatedly.

I was dismayed at the quality of the work he had done. The flooring, drywall, tile, transitions, texturing, paint… basically everything looked pretty rough. I did not know what to do, and hoped that I was just me being too picky and that the right buyer would be thrilled with the home. This, folks, is what they call wishful thinking…

When I put the house on the market, it got a lot of attention. It was a good time to list, a great area, and it was priced fairly; we had almost 10 showings in the first weekend. I immediately started receiving negative feedback about all the things I was concerned about.

In addition to the poor finish work, the guy didn’t bother to put a mailbox up, or house numbers. He didn’t think it was necessary to case the windows in, and as my wife put it, they looked like “prison windows”.

After receiving enough critical feedback to know it wasn’t an anomaly, I confronted him about the shoddy workmanship. His response was to blame it on “picky College Park buyers” and accused me of not marketing the property well enough. After a few heated discussions over the course of several weeks, it became clear to me that he had no intention of taking any responsibility for the work he had done.

After agonizing over what to do, my wife and I decided to bite the bullet and hire someone to remedy what we could. We put about $7,000 of our own money into redoing the transitions, repainting, touching up the tile work, casing the windows, trim work and closing up one wall and adding a built in bookcase to improve the flow of the house, along with completing the walkway from the driveway to the front door, so potential buyers didn’t have to walk through the wet grass to get to the front door.

After doing all this, and re-listing the property at a 10% discount, we received 3 offers in less than a week, one of them cash. We could see the finish line!

We accepted an offer at $185k, and were set to close in 6 weeks. The buyer’s agent scheduled an inspection for that weekend. During the inspection, I received several concerned phone calls from the agent about the AC, electrical, and windows, all of which my “partner” had assured me were completely redone, rewired, etc. His favorite phrase throughout the process, “Bro, it’s like a brand new house”; Not quite...

I didn't hear anything back until Monday evening, when my broker called me to say she had received a complaint from the buyer's agent, accusing me of misrepresenting the property on the MLS. Based on what the contractor had told me, I had listed the property as fully renovated. In fact, it was not… Many of the outlets weren't working and weren't GFCI protected, the AC unit was not brand new, but over 10 years old, just with a new shell, there were plumbing leaks and the windows were not even secured to the frame of the house. I explained to my broker what had happened and immediately called the buyer's agent to explain, apologize and wrote her clients a check for the cost of their inspection.

At this point, I knew the contractor had blatantly lied to me and taken advantage of my trusting nature and inexperience.

I forwarded the inspection report to him and gave him 3 options.

  • He could buy the property from me, and make my investor and myself whole.
  • I would drop the price significantly, disclosing all the defects the inspection had revealed, pay my investor and myself back and he would get what was leftover.
  • I would rent/refinance the property at a low LTV, pay my investor back and the contractor would get whatever was left.

After some posturing, he agreed to buy the property for just over $110,000.

My investor was received his principal, along with the interest rate I advertised, which ended up as an ROI for him of around 16.5%. My first commitment to my investors is that they always get paid first, and I mean it. I had recently listened to Will Barnard's podcast, and it just reinforced for me how much integrity matters in this (or any) business.

My wife and I ended up losing about $2,000 on the deal after closing costs. It sucked, but it was an extremely valuable learning experience, and far less than the cost of a guru course.


What I learned

Whether you’re partnering with a GC or just hiring one, vet your contractor!

  • Is he licensed?
  • Are there any complaints against him?
  • What’s his BBB status? Is he even registered with the BBB?
  • What type of insurance/bond does he have?
  • ASK FOR REFERENCES, then go see his work. - If he wont/cant give you any references, run! If he’s evasive about showing you projects he’s worked on or introducing you to former clients, run!
  • Set expectations clearly up front. Put them in writing and hold people accountable.

Partner only when it makes sense, and then only with someone you’d trust with your children. 

In retrospect, it didn’t make a lot of sense for me to partner on this deal. I could have paid a licensed GC $60k+ and still netted a decent profit for myself and my investor.

Control Matters

Thankfully, I controlled this property and the contractor had no ownership of it, so I was in a strong position when it came to those difficult negotiations.

What I’m doing now

The only way I could look at this experience as a failure, is if I had decided to give up on REI. I learned SO MUCH, and this experience has informed and will continue to inform: my processes, my instincts, contracts, structuring deals and most of all partnerships.

  • It had the potential to be a great deal.  I had & have great instincts and I'm far better investor, realtor and partner as a result of the experience.
  • I’m finishing up my second flip, which has had challenges of it’s own, but will make a nice profit for myself and a 15+% return for my investors.
  • I’m BRRRR’ing with several private investors to build single family rental portfolios with serious cash flow. Each investor has their own goals and timeframes, but the 3-5 year plan is to transition into apartment buildings when the bubble bursts. (I’m not an economist, I just read stuff that people far smarter than I have written, and it seems like the apartment market is getting overheated and overbuilt).
  • I’m working as an agent to help other investors find cash flowing rental properties. @Ryan Rupnarain just posted about one we worked on together.
  • My wife and I are house hacking, and are finishing up a studio apartment attached to our home that will bring in some serious cash flow.
  • I'm always looking for the next deal.


Thanks for reading!

Post: Newbie Bp member from Jacksonville Fl

Andrew DavisPosted
  • Investor
  • Asheville, NC
  • Posts 833
  • Votes 499

Oh, and love that you have a goal for the year.  I would strongly encourage you and your husband to read 'The One Thing'.  It has completely changed how I look at goal setting and achievement.

One of the authors was featured on the podcast not too long ago, check it out!:

https://www.biggerpockets.com/renewsblog/2015/03/12/bp-podcast-113-becoming-millionaire-real-estate-investor-using-one-thing-with-jay-papasan/

Post: Newbie Bp member from Jacksonville Fl

Andrew DavisPosted
  • Investor
  • Asheville, NC
  • Posts 833
  • Votes 499

Hey @Mia Walton, welcome to BP and the Florida investing community!

Here are a few tips to help you get the most out of BP and kickstart your investing career:

Start here. You'll get a wealth of REI knowledge and learn how to take full advantage of Bigger Pockets (including how to connect with other local investors).

Listen to the podcasts , get active on the forums & set up key word alerts to be notified when people are discussing topics you're interested in.

Check out the webinars, they are very informative, and there’s usually a new one every week.

I'm an agent/investor in the Orlando area, so reach out anytime.

I wish you and your husband all the best! 

Post: New Wholesaler/Investor

Andrew DavisPosted
  • Investor
  • Asheville, NC
  • Posts 833
  • Votes 499

Hey @Alicia Mccormack, welcome to BP and the Central Florida investing community!

Here are a few tips to help you get the most out of BP and kickstart your investing career:

Start here. You'll get a wealth of REI knowledge and learn how to take full advantage of Bigger Pockets (including how to connect with other local investors).

Listen to the podcasts , get active on the forums & set up key word alerts to be notified when people are discussing topics you're interested in.

Check out the webinars, they are very informative, and there’s usually a new one every week.

I'm an agent/investor in the Orlando area, so reach out anytime. 

I wish you all the best Alicia!

Post: Foreclosure Pricing

Andrew DavisPosted
  • Investor
  • Asheville, NC
  • Posts 833
  • Votes 499

Hey @Michelle Elsaid, @Gene Mills and @John Kent hit it right on the head. What the banks/asset managers are realizing is that they don't really have to discount these REO's much, if at all, to sell them.

I just pulled this chart yesterday... inventory is way down, and prices and closed sales are up.  So the banks that have been sitting on these foreclosures can now unload them in a relatively hot market.

There are still good deals out there, but they may not have boarded up windows and smelly carpet.  Use the BP rental calculator to determine if the properties you're looking at will cash flow long term.

A knowledgeable investor friendly agent like John Kent will be able to assist you with rental comps and such, in fact, it looks like he may have just saved you $15,000!

Post: BRRRR

Andrew DavisPosted
  • Investor
  • Asheville, NC
  • Posts 833
  • Votes 499

Hey @Jeri Clark, while I can't speak specifically for Jacksonville, I've heard there are some great deals up there.  I'll tell you how it's working out for me and my equity partner.

I got this deal off a direct mail campaign (I think one of the keys to BRRRR is to find something with enough equity in it where you can pull out the majority of your original investment at a 75 or 80% LTV cash out refi).

Purchase Price: $75,000

Rehab: $30,000

All in: $105,000

Conservative ARV: $150,000

Monthly Rent: $1300

We are just about to put it up for rent. Even if we were only able to refi at 75% LTV, we'd still be able to pull out over $110k cash for re-investment.

You can see all the details here:

https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/517/topics/211189-central-florida-brrrr-equity-partnership

It works!

Post: New investor from Tampa, Florida

Andrew DavisPosted
  • Investor
  • Asheville, NC
  • Posts 833
  • Votes 499

Hey @Steven Paul, welcome to BP and the Central Florida investing community!

@Adrian Smude will be a great connection for you, and he is absolutely right, the more you can network, connect with and learn from other investors, the better.  Cheesy but true saying: your net-work determines your net-worth.  

Here are a few tips to help you get the most out of BP and kickstart your investing career:

Start here. You'll get a wealth of REI knowledge and learn how to take full advantage of Bigger Pockets (including how to connect with other local investors).

Listen to the podcasts , get active on the forums & set up key word alerts to be notified when people are discussing topics you're interested in.

Check out the webinars, they are very informative, and there’s usually a new one every week.  

I'm an agent/investor in the Orlando area, so reach out anytime.

I wish you all the best Steven!

Post: Real estate prices

Andrew DavisPosted
  • Investor
  • Asheville, NC
  • Posts 833
  • Votes 499

Hey @Oren Sharony, I would concur with @Christopher Brainard and @Felix Fooks.

While we're currently in a "hot" market, you can still find an affordable home in Central Florida.

Plan to live in it or rent it out when you move and you should be in good shape.  Buying is still much cheaper than renting.

I'm an agent and investor in the Orlando area, but am over in Tampa a fair amount, so reach out anytime.

Post: Fort Lauderdale BP members, I need your help!

Andrew DavisPosted
  • Investor
  • Asheville, NC
  • Posts 833
  • Votes 499

Hey @Claire Batraville, I would definitely agree with @Lucas Machado.

I'm sure you can find condo's in that price range, but you'll want to make sure your agent is doing good due diligence:

You'll want to see: the condo budget, any planned HOA fee increases or assessments, upcoming improvements, delinquency ratio, etc... Basically you want to be sure that the association is doing a decent job of managing the property, otherwise you could be in for a very unpleasant surprise in the form of a drastic increase in your monthly fees or a costly assessment.

Post: Newbie from Orlando FL

Andrew DavisPosted
  • Investor
  • Asheville, NC
  • Posts 833
  • Votes 499

Hey @Daniel Wurl, welcome to BP!

You'll find this site extremely informative, and with all your experience, you'll also be able to give a lot of insight.

Here are a few tips to help you get the most out of the site:

Start here. You'll get a wealth of REI knowledge and learn how to take full advantage of Bigger Pockets (including how to connect with other Central Florida investors).

Listen to the podcasts , get active on the forums & set up key word alerts to be notified when people are discussing topics you're interested in.

Check out the webinars, they are very informative, and there’s usually a new one every week.  

I'm an agent/investor in the Orlando area, and currently have projects going on in Sanford, Winter Springs, Winter Park and College Park.  It would be great to connect sometime.

Take Care Daniel!